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Thread: Best Ladies jumper(s)

  1. #16
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    She was near 100% with the flip before the olympic season. Then it dropped to 50/50. This year, though, she's 100%, more than even her lutz or salchow.

    Consistency should be adjusted for frequency when evaluating best jumper. Yuna has landed the greatest number of ISU ratified 3/3s among the ladies, particularly difficult ones in major competitions. That counts for something. She's not "just a great 3Lutz or toe jumper."
    I don't like Yu-Na's salchow A LOT: for me, her technique in lutz AND flip is the best in the world (yes, even better than Liza's if we consider both the lutz and the flip), and the quality of her 3x+3T is superbe, but her salchow is not an excellent jump: I don't like the fact that she often loses most of her speed going out of it and that she doesn't finish the rotation in the air, but it's often pretty close to UR to me; however, I would put Yu-Na in 5th place in my ranking because of the height: what strikes me the most, wtaching the Ladies jump, is when they have great height, and Yu-Na's jumps are beautiful and very well-done but not that kind of that I personally love...

  2. #17
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Obviously it was directly toward jenaj whose logic was this, Gracie didn't do 3lutz-3toe consistently for 6 years.
    Well, Kim didn't do loop for 6 years or whatever. Kim wasn't consistent with a few other jumps for a few years.

    Kim is obviously one of the best jumpers, but so are others. They might not be that consistent, but they are great jumpers. Miss Harding is a great jumper, but boys, she liked cigs and booze more than she liked to jump lutz, ok? Does that make her any less than a great jumper?

    Just look at their perfectly excecuted jumps, and see if they are a good jumper or not. After all, how do you decide what's consistent? 80%? 70%? Someone who only skated for 2 years? Someone who skated 10 years? Someone who still can jump years after they retire like Arakawa?

    Compare them at their best. Not 6 years average or 10 times average.
    Well, that's rather switching up standards. If we're only counting executed jumps and not considering falls, pops, doubles and omissions, then even Yuna's loop count since she actually has done them in past competitions both junior and senior, and she has done 7-triple programs with 3/3's as well.

    I think in the evaluation of best jumpER one must take into account consistency and frequency. Now, if we're just evaluating best ladies' JUMPS period, then of course, it's a different criteria.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Obviously it was directly toward jenaj whose logic was this, Gracie didn't do 3lutz-3toe consistently for 6 years.
    Well, Kim didn't do loop for 6 years or whatever. Kim wasn't consistent with a few other jumps for a few years.

    Kim is obviously one of the best jumpers, but so are others. They might not be that consistent, but they are great jumpers. Miss Harding is a great jumper, but boys, she liked cigs and booze more than she liked to jump lutz, ok? Does that make her any less than a great jumper?

    Just look at their perfectly excecuted jumps, and see if they are a good jumper or not. After all, how do you decide what's consistent? 80%? 70%? Someone who only skated for 2 years? Someone who skated 10 years? Someone who still can jump years after they retire like Arakawa?

    Compare them at their best. Not 6 years average or 10 times average.
    Well--no surprise--I disagree. If it's at someone's best, no matter how inconsistent or how short the career, then of course Tonya Harding should be right up there with Midori. But I would never put her among the very best because she was so inconsistent. She would do a triple axel and then later pop a double axel in the same program. It is true that Yu Na doesn't do the loop. I did not take that into account. But her 3-3s and her lutzes are textbook and she rarely misses. The reason I still put Yu Na second to Midori is because her longevity with her difficult 3-3s shows that she really had the jump. Who else can say that? Tara Lipinski? I think her career was too short to know for sure. Shizuka's 3-3s were probably under-rotated and she didn't always do them. I think Yu Na's consistency with her 3-3s more than makes up for the fact that she doesn't do the loop.
    Last edited by jenaj; 01-31-2013 at 03:08 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Who else can say that? Tara Lipinski? I think her career was too short to know for sure. Shizuka's 3-3s were probably under-rotated and she didn't always do them. I think Yu Na's consistency with her 3-3s more than makes up for the fact that she doesn't do the loop.
    Tara had an horrible technique, and Shizuka's 3-3s were often UR, yes...

  5. #20
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    This is tricky for me. To me, being able to do the jumps and doing them consistently aren't always synonymous. The obvious names we all know, like Kim, Mao, Ito, Gold, and the Russians. However, I personally have a fondness for skaters who are consistent, like Kwan. Some of the most technically brilliant jumpers today have not performed consistently this season, and that diminishes their abilities in my eyes. Gracie, to me, has such pure technique, but if I'm comparing her one great performance to, say, Irina's career, I can't say she's better. Yet. If I had the time and dedication, I'd go over each skater's performance at a major competition, what triples and combinations they attempted, and how many were successful, and the difficulty of these jumps.
    Last edited by rkuang; 01-31-2013 at 05:43 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    What's the criteria? Height? Speed? Flow? Variety of jumps and combos? Difficulty? Consistency? etc.
    It can be different depends on which criteria it is.
    No doubt Midori is the best jumper, better than most of guys!
    Among the current ladies, I think Gold and Yuna are the best overall - speed, flow, height, distance, great air position, difficulty, consistency (Yuna is very consistent), etc. Liza is a great jumper, too. In terms of qualities, I think Caro has amazing jumps!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Well--no surprise--I disagree. If it's at someone's best, no matter how inconsistent or how short the career, then of course Tonya Harding should be right up there with Midori. But I would never put her among the very best because she was so inconsistent. She would do a triple axel and then later pop a double axel in the same program. It is true that Yu Na doesn't do the loop. I did not take that into account. But her 3-3s and her lutzes are textbook and she rarely misses. The reason I still put Yu Na second to Midori is because her longevity with her difficult 3-3s shows that she really had the jump. Who else can say that? Tara Lipinski? I think her career was too short to know for sure. Shizuka's 3-3s were probably under-rotated and she didn't always do them. I think Yu Na's consistency with her 3-3s more than makes up for the fact that she doesn't do the loop.
    In addition to a very short career, Tara also had very low jumps. I can't imagine they would have gotten any bigger even if she had remained healthy and been able to continue skating.

    I wouldn't dismiss Shizuka that quickly, though. She didn't always underrotate, she kept her triple-triples well-maintained through a long career, and she also had quite a large repertoire of different triple-triples. I wouldn't put her above Midori and YuNa (my 1 and 2), but I'd list her as one of the best jumpers.

  8. #23
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    i'm not going to evaluate skaters like midori and surya since i was little when they skated, so i will do the ones in recent years. my best:

    yuna: fast, BIG, fearless jumps. she flies into them and is so consistent and has hard content minus the loop.
    mao: very light, high jumps. she floats and makes them look so easy.
    caro: very powerful, also fearless jumps for the most part. very big and lovely air position.
    rachael: i know a lot of people wouldn't agree, but she is (was ) very consistent and "reliable rachael." she always delivered and almost never fell or pop and made jumping look easy.
    gracie: for obvious reasons. big, floaty, effortless jumps with perfect technique. consistent for the most part. difficult jump content also.
    adelina: she is fairly inconsistent, but when she hits they are gorgeous. nice and big.
    julia: again, not huge jumps, but consistent and nice to look at.
    liza: perfect technique, SO consistent, hard jump content.
    ashley: i have always been a fan of her feet in the air, they are very neat and her jumps are good sized. they've become much better in the past couple years with her improved consistency.
    agnes: inconsistent but very powerful and huge jumps.
    courtney: like someone else said, huge but dirty jumps. they need major polishing but they are HUGE.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    When Gracie jumps a difficult 3-3 as beautifully and consistently as Yu Na has since she first came on the scene around six years ago, then I will agree with you.
    Gracie at her best is better than Yuna at her best, IMO. And if you're set on comparing them based on the longevity of their careers, then I doubt you'll ever agree with me.

  10. #25
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    I just hope that one day, Gracie Gold will declare at a press conference that YuNa Kim deserved to be on the podium with her.

    teheheehehee Sorry I couldn't resist! I like them both!!!

  11. #26
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    I have to admit that I am shocked that surya is making any lists as one of the best jumpers, I mean I loved to watch her and she was a great entertainer but it wasnt just her take offs, she under rotated...alot . It wasnt just the quad attempts (Though I always admired her for going for them) the triple triples were ur,d most of the time and also the flips and lutzes were also often under rotated and she had those stiff landings aswell.
    I think Miki is very under rated as a jumper and also as a skater in general, her jumps were things of beauty.
    Sorry JMO

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Gracie at her best is better than Yuna at her best, IMO. And if you're set on comparing them based on the longevity of their careers, then I doubt you'll ever agree with me.
    Really? Compare Gracie's 3-3 in National and Yuna's 3-3 at her 16. Yes, Graice's 3-3 was great but so was YuNa's.
    YuNa
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTCAsSGgFWc

    Gracie
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU6osJzg368

  13. #28
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    I think it's a bit early to put anyone ahead of YuNa, except for Midori Ito, who's ahead of everyone including some of the men.

  14. #29
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    Mao Asada
    Midori Ito
    Miki Ando

    I chose those women because of the unbelievable jump content they have displayed through there career!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I think it's a bit early to put anyone ahead of YuNa, except for Midori Ito, who's ahead of everyone including some of the men.
    I have to laugh at the people who think Gracie Gold is a better jumper than Yu Na, based on one long program--at a competition where she missed her 3-3 in the short program. And I'm not even a big Yu Na fan! Yu Na's ability to pull off those triple-triples, in the long and short programs, in nearly every competition she has been in since she came on the scene, has been nothing short of amazing.

    Here is Gracie, at age 16, at the WTT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQh4zMQDLSI The potential is clearly there, but she needs to land her 3-3 to really be mentioned in the same category as Yu Na.
    Last edited by jenaj; 02-01-2013 at 10:48 AM.

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