I don't think that instituting a paint-by-numbers evaluation system in the art world, like the CoP, would help future Van Goghs.Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
Anyway, why can't we have both, Mozart and Kagel Nacht? (Admission: I have never heard of Kagel Nacht. I Googled "obscure avant garde composer" and his name popped up.)
There's always John Cage, Math. He used to perform with a topless cellist. Part of his music involved I think plucking the strings inside a grand piano.
Rock it, Amadeus!
1. Yes, you are an utter philistine. Completely and utterly hopeless. Though I'd definitely be interested in debating with you.Am I an utter philistine if I'd rather watch the first Transformers movie again than 2046 or My Blueberry Nights?
But seriously, I don't think anyone (including ardent fans or even Michael Bay himself) pretends that Transformers is some sort of artistic triumph or has any lasting value whatsoever. Movies of that ilk are just mindless fun, like watching bad reality TV or reading Harlequin romance novels. There's no point to comparing them to the works of the Dardennes, Haneke or Wong Kar-Wai.
Anyway, the flip side of your question is, how many artists were enjoyed and praised by contemporary audiences (even if not entirely understood by them) and continue to be highly acclaimed today? Start with Beethoven, Michelangelo, Shakespeare, etc., and go from there.
2. Ah, the no point assertion. My least favourite debating tactic. But I'd argue there is a point and it goes back to Mathman's premise.
3. Entirely true. There is going to be something of worth regardless.
---
4. Mathman, you know that's not what I'm asserting. But I don't believe that if all art catered towards an ignorant audience, it would be better for it, as you asserted.
Well, but if your Art only caters to the few Elect - well, then you shouldn't surprised that it isn't popular with the "ignorant audience" - or the "hoi polloi", the "riff raff" &c. Which I thought was the question this thread was discussing - whether it was declining and if so, why? Are you saying that you actually PREFER it to be unpopular? And I don't think your HP versus Bolano comparison works very well - do you actually expect children to read Bolano? And do you despise them for not doing so?
1. Do I prefer it to be unpopular? No. I do prefer that popularity isn't the goal, however.
2. Of course I don't expect children to read Bolano. But I'd argue that more adults have read Harry Potter as adults than have read Bolano (and really, His Dark Materials is just so much better than Harry Potter anyway). Do you believe that to be false?
Then so be it! I am utterly a philistine, and will proudly spend the rest of my life reading Fifty Shades of Grey and watch nothing but Uwe Boll and Michael Bay movies.
On a more serious note, I adore some of Wong Kar Wai's films. I'd rather watch ten minutes of Chungking Express than the entirety of anything Michael Bay has ever touched. However, I feel as if Wong Kar Wai has lost his way somewhat after In the Mood for Love....both 2046 and My Blueberry Nights seemed like sad retreads of his greatest hits and overused motifs to me.
I believe it is already on the rise in Canada again.
And this speaks to my point about the fact that there is so little television coverage of US competitions - or even the Grand Prix series, Europeans (which we saw none of) and Worlds. Canada has GREAT coverage of their own events as well as others. My friends in Canada saw more of US Nats than I did this year. Forget the skaters coming up - we hardly saw the top 10 in any discipline! It irritates the snot out of me when someone says -"well there just isn't any money or interest in figure skating!" That's like what came first, the chicken or the egg. If someone would take the leap and start broadcasting more the interest would build up! I've often that that the decine of interest in SOI is due to the fact that the average viewer doesn't know the skaters anymore (and the cost of the tickets......) There is no attachment or interest in following their professional careers because they were barely seen as amateurs!
I see your point, however you must remember that there was a time when skating did have the television coverage and interest still stagnated. The viewers don't know the skaters because there isn't much longevity for many of the skaters at the top. Hughes is an Olympic champion and is completely out of the competitive picture two years later, same with Meissner. Only recently has the US had a woman able to defend her national title when most champions struggle to even medal the following year. COP, in additional to making things complicated for the casual fan, has also made skating more difficult for the competitors and rather than skating with freedom the skaters are trying to cram as many point-earning elements as possible. This is great for the purists, who want to see better skating skills rewarded, but terrible for casual fans who can't understand why programs with multiple falls beat clean looking programs. I think people naturally tune out sports they don't "get" and I suspect you see this happening with casual fans who aren't going to sit around the water cooler and rave about Ashley's title-defending, two-fall long program.
@SashaCohenNYC
On my way to @nasdaq to ring the closing bell to celebrate one year out from the next @Olympics. #finance #closingbell #sochi2014
11:55 AM - 6 Feb 13
A small sign that figure skating has not completely fallen off the national radar in the U.S.
I realize that the one-year countdown to Sochi has all kinds of hoopla going on today, but someone (the USOC?? NBC??) was smart to arrange this opportunity. And with her growing expertise in business, Cohen is the perfect choice for it. (I'm curious to see whether other skaters will be with her too.)
Last edited by golden411; 02-06-2013 at 03:35 PM.
I think it would have been better to use someone current skater, who might actually compete in Sochi. People already know Sasha Cohen but they don't know any of the possible competitors in Sochi.
^ glam, great minds think alike:
Turns our that three of the athletes [but not skaters] at the NASDAQ closing bell event are 2014 Olympic hopefuls. One already was a 2010 Olympic bobsledder; the other two are hopefuls for slopestyle skiing [whatever that is??].
But in addition to Cohen, the other figure skaters participating were Olympians of the past: Tara Lipinski + Sarah and Emily Hughes.
Photos here:
Too bad that the Shibutanis and Davis/White are in Osaka for Four Continents. They would have been great ambassadors for Team USA, as they always are.
In any case, I'm happy for Cohen, who has big things ahead of her in the world of finance as her "second act." Today must have been an especially big thrill for her.
When Evan Lysacek rang the closing bell at NYSE a couple of years ago, the Dow Jones went up 62 points the next day.
I'm counting on you, Sasha!
How great that Sasha got to take part in such an event. It doesn't bother me that they invited Sasha--after all, she's a New Yorker and is studying finance. Also, she's at this point better known than any other lady they could choose short of Michelle. Better known even than Tara or Sarah, with their OGMs. Unless the NASDAQ decides to go as far back as Dorothy, this is the best choice, and the most glamorous.
Funny, just as this thread came up, a colleague at the office randomnly mentioned Tara Lipinski. The conversation had nothing to do with skating and this colleague is definitely not a figure skating fan. But her name came up as part of something else. So, I thought, huh, he read Tara Lipinski randomnly and immediately knew who she was. I asked him, out of curiosity, do you know who the 2002 Olympic ladies gold medalist was? He looked blank and said uh.... Michelle Kwan never won Olympic gold did she? I said "correct!" And then I told him it was Sarah Hughes. Blank look. Okay, do you know who won in 2006 (yeah right). Nothing. 2010? Nope.
So this guy, who is in his mid thirties and most definitely doesn't care about skating, knew exactly who Tara and Michelle were. He also, I figured out later, knew who Osksana Baiul was and Kristi and of course Tonya and Nancy.
So, his knowledge drops after 1998.
What's the point? I don't know... I definitely think the decline has a lot to do with the lack of a U.S. ladies star. The COP doesn't help probably but I think the networks would still be inclined to cover figure skating more aggressively if there was a compelling story line. But I also think figure skating is one of those things that is suffering from the modern pop culture world of endless sources of entertainment on the internet, netflix, reality tv etc. in the 1980 and 90s there still weren't as many choices so Tonya-Nancy and then Michelle-Tara were among the best reality TV shows around.
Incidently, I didn't think to ask him if he knew who Sasha Cohen is. That would be interesting.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks