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Thread: Worst Ladies Quadrenial Ever?

  1. #76
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    2011 was the low point i think. People were saying it was the weakest field since the late 80's. But now with Kim back and better then ever and Mao making a comeback and the new kids injecting some much needed new blood next season is going to be brutal competition.

  2. #77
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    2010-2011 season was poor. 2011-2012 season was reasonable. 2012-2013 season was very strong. 2013-2014 probably will be as strong or better. So no, not even close to the poorest quad ever. Poorest quad ever would probably be 1977-1980 where Fratianne and Poetzsch battled alone for all the big titles, two completely forgettable skaters.

  3. #78
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    Mea culpa - how it changes! And quickly too - the GP series and the GPF this year were hardly inspiring - but a well skated Worlds makes such a difference

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    What an interesting discussion before Worlds, and what a reversal from the last two years! With Yuna back, Mao went from her rather lackluster early season performances to attempting an 8-triple long program and Carolina included a 3Lz and 3F+3T in her long program.

    Technically, this was one of the strongest Worlds ladies podium in a while, I think. The rest of the top 10 were also very strong technically. It seems 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 will save this quad from being the "worst ladies quadrennial ever."
    After the worst gp series ever the season really picked up with difficulty! 3/3 from Yuna Carolina Mao. It's unfortunate that it seemed to be because of Yuna. Maybe it wasn't but the jump difficulty the whole 2013 was really almost the pre triple era! Or mid 80's or something from the top ladies skaters. 2012 - all of it was jus the worst in decades. Maybe there won't be a stunning fall when Yuna retires again.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    After the worst gp series ever the season really picked up with difficulty! 3/3 from Yuna Carolina Mao. It's unfortunate that it seemed to be because of Yuna. Maybe it wasn't but the jump difficulty the whole 2013 was really almost the pre triple era! Or mid 80's or something from the top ladies skaters. 2012 - all of it was jus the worst in decades. Maybe there won't be a stunning fall when Yuna retires again.
    The younger girls are all doing 3/3 combo's so when the older skaters finally hang it up after 2014 i don't see there being a big drop off since it's mostly the older veterans who weren't doing the jump difficulty.

  6. #81
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    I haven't read the whole thread.... however, I think the debate about whole package vs jumps can be summed up with the question, did all the 'greats'/past champions win only because of jumps or because they were well rounded skaters? IMHO, the honest answer would be that they had a well balanced assortment of skills - none relied on one skill(jumps) to win. They were enjoyable to watch because they did more than jump.

    As related to the current ladies.... let's face it, Mao and Kostner have been at it for a long time without taking a break. It's gotta be beating on their bodies. In general, age slows down reaction time. When timing is 'everything' to perform a jump well, there will be a decline in their ability to land jumps, but they've had time to build skill sets in the in betweens.

    The newcomers have the jumps but seldom much inbetween -gets kinds boring just watching them do jumps - may as well just watch warmups IMHO.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    2010-2011 season was poor. 2011-2012 season was reasonable. 2012-2013 season was very strong. 2013-2014 probably will be as strong or better.
    I disagree. It was stronger than the previous two years, but if not for Kim's skate at Worlds, it would have been another year where the top skaters (namely, Kostner and Asada) made considerable errors and still medaled. The Grand Prix had strong skates by Wagner and Suzuki, but both peaked too early. And then you had skaters like Korpi skate well early and then pull out with injury. Mao was regaining her consistency... had a brilliant SP at 4CC, but other than that wasn't at her best. This season was on and off for many skaters, and even Worlds/4CC/Euros was messy. Funny enough, most skaters had very strong skates only at their National competitions (Asada/Kostner/Tuktamysheva). It's clear that it's getting very difficult to pull two clean skates these days, but Kim showed that it's still possible and obviously picked the best time to do that.

    I'm hoping that Kim's resurgence will spur on greater technical consistency. The Olympics has the potential to be the best ever, with lots of 3-3 combinations in the SP and FS. Many skaters seem to "get it together", so I'm hoping skaters like Sotnikova, Wagner, Tuktamysheva, Suzuki, Murakami, Kostner and Asada all peak and we see several 200+ scores.

    If I'm being honest though, I think the 2018 Olympics are going to be the real one to watch... and I'm hoping it's like a Russian nationals where 3Z-3T is practically a requisite and some skaters are attempting 3As or even quads.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    The younger girls are all doing 3/3 combo's so when the older skaters finally hang it up after 2014 i don't see there being a big drop off since it's mostly the older veterans who weren't doing the jump difficulty.
    I worry about the younger girls becoming older and being a kostner. When kostner was young she had the 3/3 combos but also lost to 3/3 combos. So that is what I was thinking. The Pcs of the younger girls rise and then 3/3 is not vital. Against Yuna kostner had 3/3 and Mao had 3a. They have to be smart too so sometimes 3/3 may go away. Look how successful Wagner was with no 3/3 because her pcs rose because she was consistent with no 3/3!

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I disagree. It was stronger than the previous two years, but if not for Kim's skate at Worlds, it would have been another year where the top skaters (namely, Kostner and Asada) made considerable errors and still medaled.
    Well by your logic the mens field must be the worst in history by an enormous margin considering Chan can do a free program with about 3 clean jumps (out of 8) and still win any event he enters if he does a clean short. Womens skating is not known for all the top skaters skating cleanly, never has been. I could go over all the last 40 years and prove that easily. You are expecting something unrealistic.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I disagree. It was stronger than the previous two years, but if not for Kim's skate at Worlds, it would have been another year where the top skaters (namely, Kostner and Asada) made considerable errors and still medaled. The Grand Prix had strong skates by Wagner and Suzuki, but both peaked too early. And then you had skaters like Korpi skate well early and then pull out with injury. Mao was regaining her consistency... had a brilliant SP at 4CC, but other than that wasn't at her best. This season was on and off for many skaters, and even Worlds/4CC/Euros was messy. Funny enough, most skaters had very strong skates only at their National competitions (Asada/Kostner/Tuktamysheva). It's clear that it's getting very difficult to pull two clean skates these days, but Kim showed that it's still possible and obviously picked the best time to do that.

    I'm hoping that Kim's resurgence will spur on greater technical consistency. The Olympics has the potential to be the best ever, with lots of 3-3 combinations in the SP and FS. Many skaters seem to "get it together", so I'm hoping skaters like Sotnikova, Wagner, Tuktamysheva, Suzuki, Murakami, Kostner and Asada all peak and we see several 200+ scores.

    If I'm being honest though, I think the 2018 Olympics are going to be the real one to watch... and I'm hoping it's like a Russian nationals where 3Z-3T is practically a requisite and some skaters are attempting 3As or even quads.
    No woman is going to be trying a quad anytime soon. Or for that matter a triple axel either.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    No woman is going to be trying a quad anytime soon. Or for that matter a triple axel either.
    We don't know that for certain. With the Olympic season right around the corner, anything is possible--and I can think of several ladies who have the technical ability to attempt and land a ratified 3A.

  12. #87
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    It's amazing that Mao even got to the step of trying it in international competition! Sure you had Kimmie meisner once st us nationals but how do you even get a skater to try it?? Before she was on the jrgp and after the ur rules were changed tuktamisheva never tried and you can't say her coach skimps on the jumps! Sure she's a ladies skater and he mostly deals with men but no Liza 3a when coached by mishin!! Trying seems to be an unreachable step!!

    Cop 3a attempts skaters
    Asada
    Nakano
    ???
    No one else!
    I think neledina was 6.0?

  13. #88
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    The ladies are currently attempting more than ever before and they are no more inconsistent than they always were. For those who are unsatisfied since they expect Asada to skate her 8 triple, triple axel laden program squeeky clean or inconsistent Kostner to skate squeeky clean for the top 3 to be worth anything lets do a history recheck:

    1992- nobody but Yamaguchi landed anymore than 4 clean triples.
    1993- One of best ever events, but still won by Baiul with only 5 triples and no jump combination.
    1994- Baiul wins Olympics with 3 clean triples. Bonaly a skater with no basic skating or artistry loses Worlds by .1 with only 5 clean triples and 2 major mistakes.
    1995- Chen wins Worlds with 5 triples, and only 1 triple lutz.
    1996- One of best ever events, but still Slutskaya easily wins bronze with super hard fall, only 1 triple lutz, some shaky landings, and no artistry.
    1997- One of best ever long program events. Kwan though nearly wins World title with a missed triple lutz in both programs.
    1998- All 3 medalists fall in long program, and silver and bronze blew combo in short program too. Bronze medal at Olympics won by technically deficient program by Lu Chen with only about 2 solid fully rotated triples, and terrible spins.
    1999- Kwan has one of worst ever competitions and wins silver.
    2000- Butyrskaya wins bronze with mediocre long program, and Slutskaya silver with only fair one at best.
    2001- One of better events, but Slutskaya nearly wins World title with sloppy long program with several mistakes.
    2002- Sarah Hughes with only about 3 truly clean triples (others all badly flutzed or UR) at Olympics over Slutskaya who only lands 4 truly clean triples, skates 60% slower than usual, and has poor artistic program. Bronze medalist Michelle Kwan falls and two foots simple triple toe-double toe combo.
    2003- Suguri wins bronze medal with only 4 triples in both qualifying round and long program, and with short program where she barely lands her triple lutz combo and has an almost uncountable layback spin.
    2004- Sasha Cohen wins silver with lame LP performance. Michelle Kwan very nearly wins LP with only 5 triples and 1 triple lutz.

    I could keep going but I think already gets the point. What the ladies were putting out in 2011 was below the norm, but what they are putting out now is in fact well above the norm and very high quality, only a bit below the highest ever ladies standard which was the Vancouver Olympics. To put down the women is even more hilarious in the face of the other events. So Kostner barely winning silver with a LP with 2 mistakes in anotherwise exquisite display with wonderful choreography, interpreation, impeccable long lines, amazing speed, and very high jumps is bad; or Asada winning bronze with the hardest jump layout ever done by a lady and a few stumbles is just so bad, yet Patrick Chan apparently being still the best out there and the gold medalist with a LP with 5 major mistakes and overall boring presentation and panicked performance shows the mens event is so much stronger by comparision, LOL! Or the pair event where someone can fall throwing his partner and still win by 20 points over a still badly overmatched field. Then the dance event where the top 2 are probably 6 falls clear of 3rd place (although fortunately unlike Chan they dont use and show us all that margin just for the fun of it). Just rich. The ladies event stacks up extremely well to both past ladies fields, and the other 3 events currently. Anyone who thinks otherwise is apparently blind or a hater.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    We don't know that for certain. With the Olympic season right around the corner, anything is possible--and I can think of several ladies who have the technical ability to attempt and land a ratified 3A.
    They do. Liza comes to mind, and I'm sure a few others can in practice as well. But the way the scoring works now it makes it not worth the effort; if you slightly UR a 3A yo are better off doing a clean 2A when factoring in the penalty, -GOE, and amount of physical exertion required.

  15. #90
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Most of that is ridiculously skewed. Also missing is how a lot of those "technically lacking" performances in the past had exquisite artistry. Lu Chen's 5-Triple performance from 1995 Worlds blows away Kostner's from 2012 Worlds, for example.

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