Quintuple toe-loop? | Golden Skate

Quintuple toe-loop?

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
What's going to be the next big thing in Men's skating. In the 80s-90s the 3A was the big TRIPLE AXEL!!!!!!!!!!!. Now it's just the 'triple axel'. The same thing is happening with the Quad. Used to be THE QUAD!!!!!!!!! Now it's just the quad.

I wonder what's going to be the next thing? What do you think it will be??
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Mishin has said that if anyone will be able to do a quintuple, there will have to a change in equipment, lighter skates for one thing. Considering the lack of updating equipment over the years, I doubt we will see one.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Yes, I think that it would require lighter skates and blades, and a man with the same talent for jumping that Midori has had in the Ladies: when the most difficult jump that most of the Ladies could do without falling or UR was a triple loop, Midori was landing 3As, so a male Midori could be able to land a quintuple toe/salchow when all the others are doing quads...
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Before we get to quints (especially quints that wouldn't be downgraded) I'm sure the sport would need to progress through it becoming commonplace to have both quad toe and quad salchow; to quad loop, flip, and lutz becoming unremarkable; to triple-quad and maybe quad-quad combinations; to quad axel

How many of those steps along the way would be possible with today's equipment?
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Before we get to quints (especially quints that wouldn't be downgraded) I'm sure the sport would need to progress through it becoming commonplace to have both quad toe and quad salchow; to quad loop, flip, and lutz becoming unremarkable; to triple-quad and maybe quad-quad combinations; to quad axel

How many of those steps along the way would be possible with today's equipment?

Well we've seen some quad-quad practice attempts from skaters, and I've seen a practice video of Plushenko trying a 3A-4T, all landed on one foot but badly UR'ed on the 2nd quad. But if you figure that a 4T is way harder than a 3T-3T, a 5T would be wayyyy harder than a 4T-4T. I think a 4T-4T can be done with the current equipment, and the quads through the lutz have already been attempted or completed, but the 4A and 5T I can't see being done with the skates that are currently used.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
The brutally tough competition is definitely enough to push men these days to go for the harder quads (loop, lutz and flip) and quad combos, but quints? They're not even on the Scale of Values.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
honestly it would be cool to see a quint in theory, but i really would not like to see anyone attempt one...there are already enough injuries just doing triples.
 

Cherryy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
I know brandon mroz have done 4Lz, and Daisuke tried 4F, who has tried 4Loop?

Like blue_idealist said, I remember Reynolds tried a 4 loop at nationals, probably 2012. He attempted 3 different quads then (toeloop, loop and salchow) but I think loop was not completed. Either URed or with a stepout.

Well, I think it's really unlikely that we will see a quintuple jump. The next big thing in men's skating could be a 3A-4T or even more probable a consistent 4T-3T-3L. The second combination is a huge point gainer. I think Plushy tried it several times. Like others said, 4T-4T is more likely to be done than 5T. But is it really needed? It would require an enormous amount of time to train it and the skater would risk having a serious injury. It just woudn't pay off, better practise SS and PCS in general. This season showed it's better to be a consistent jumper rather than to go for more difficult elements (ladies in general).
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Ronnie Robertson was reportedly attempting quad loops in the early 1970s, as a 30-something pro skater. Obviously not in competition, and I don't know how close to rotated they are. So that's the earliest I've heard of that jump being attempted.

Roman Serov supposedly planned to attempt them in competition in the early 2000s, but the one competition I saw broadcast where he was set to try it, he ended up doubling out. I don't think he came any closer in any other competition program.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Like blue_idealist said, I remember Reynolds tried a 4 loop at nationals, probably 2012. He attempted 3 different quads then (toeloop, loop and salchow) but I think loop was not completed. Either URed or with a stepout.

Well, I think it's really unlikely that we will see a quintuple jump. The next big thing in men's skating could be a 3A-4T or even more probable a consistent 4T-3T-3L. The second combination is a huge point gainer. I think Plushy tried it several times. Like others said, 4T-4T is more likely to be done than 5T. But is it really needed? It would require an enormous amount of time to train it and the skater would risk having a serious injury. It just woudn't pay off, better practise SS and PCS in general. This season showed it's better to be a consistent jumper rather than to go for more difficult elements (ladies in general).

You know, you've just provided a wonderful rationale for me to like CoP. Because it stresses all-around excellence and has point values for things like skating skills, it doesn't encourage people to tear their bodies apart attempting quadruple axels and quintuple whatevers. Thank goodness! I'm still trembling over Daisuke's knee injury in the last Olympic cycle.
 

TtonyV7

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
This past nationals reminded me of the lack-luster we saw at the 99 Nationals.... (Splat-fest!)

I sure miss the excitement of nationals, especially in 97, 98, 00, etc. when there so many good performances (whether it was technical, elegance, up-comers).
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
I think the adjectives run like this :

Single (1)
Double (2)
Triple (3)
Quadruple (4)
Quintuple or Pentuple (5) I think I've also seen quinteple
Sextuple or Hextuple (6) "sextuple" will trip up some censoring programs.
Septuple (7)
Octuple (8)
Nonuple (9)
Decuple (10)
Hendecuple or Undecuple (11)
Duodecuple (12)
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I believe Alexei Urmanov was training a 4A back in the day, but training the 4A caused him to break his leg quite badly.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Here's Menshov trying 4L... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx3GnlX4TlY

And Chris Mabee trying it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPJHfw--ZrM

Both close attempts!

A quint would be pretty impossible. It's a physics thing. Although who knows... now men can do triple axels out of thin air. And Brandon Mroz's quad lutz was just amazing. Very likely that he'll be the first man to do the hardest jump ever completed.

There are a lot of men though doing 3As that are landed well above the ice, so a 4A doesn't seem particularly unlikely.
 

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom
Record Breaker
Joined
May 10, 2010
I'm not particularly interested in quintuples at the moment. I would rather see the rules changed so that there can be more triple-triple combinations by allowing an extra triple toe and triple loop to be a part of a second or third jump in a combination.

I would also like a resurgence of artistry. I want to see more elements and techniques from modern, contemporary, and jazz dance be incorporated into skating. The skaters who skate with heart are still rare.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Like blue_idealist said, I remember Reynolds tried a 4 loop at nationals, probably 2012. He attempted 3 different quads then (toeloop, loop and salchow) but I think loop was not completed. Either URed or with a stepout.

Well, I think it's really unlikely that we will see a quintuple jump. The next big thing in men's skating could be a 3A-4T or even more probable a consistent 4T-3T-3L. The second combination is a huge point gainer. I think Plushy tried it several times. Like others said, 4T-4T is more likely to be done than 5T. But is it really needed? It would require an enormous amount of time to train it and the skater would risk having a serious injury. It just woudn't pay off, better practise SS and PCS in general. This season showed it's better to be a consistent jumper rather than to go for more difficult elements (ladies in general).

Plush landed 4t-3t-3lo four times so far. And he thinks quintuple is impossible, but 4A is possible.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Like blue_idealist said, I remember Reynolds tried a 4 loop at nationals, probably 2012. He attempted 3 different quads then (toeloop, loop and salchow) but I think loop was not completed. Either URed or with a stepout.

Well, I think it's really unlikely that we will see a quintuple jump. The next big thing in men's skating could be a 3A-4T or even more probable a consistent 4T-3T-3L. The second combination is a huge point gainer. I think Plushy tried it several times. Like others said, 4T-4T is more likely to be done than 5T. But is it really needed? It would require an enormous amount of time to train it and the skater would risk having a serious injury. It just woudn't pay off, better practise SS and PCS in general. This season showed it's better to be a consistent jumper rather than to go for more difficult elements (ladies in general).

You make an excellent point: more demanding three-jump combinations could be the next frontier that would be reachable without ending up in broken legs.

Gee, I wonder whether it's possible to do a four-jump combination....

A multi-jump combination is, after all, detectable to the naked eye of even a newbie fan, whereas many fans can't tell the difference between a quad jump and a triple. So a triple-triple-triple or a quad-triple-triple would be more impressive right off the bat.
 
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