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Thread: Will Asada have the 3A for Worlds?

  1. #16
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    I agree she'll need it for the SP but not necessarily to place well for the entire competition. She will only risk being behind if everyone who has a more difficult content in the SP goes clean, which can happen but rarely does. I think it's much more important for her to go clean in the short than risk it as she had done at Worlds in the last two years. It is the year before Olympics so it's important for her to place on the podium.

  2. #17
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    Personally, I'd prefer if Mao concentrated on perfecting her programs and, if there's enough time, getting a 3F-3T. Her base triples have been showing a steady improvement since the beginning of the season, and 2A-3T consistency became quite impressive considering the fact she took a lot of time off this off-season. Given the hip/back injury that bothered her this season, I'd rather see her stick to the current jumping layout than to get injured right before the Olympic season.

    That said, Mao stated that by Words she'd like to have either 3A or a 3-3 in both of her programs, and usually if she commits to a certain strategy, she doesn't go back on her word (unless detracted by injury or other unforeseen circumstances, knock on wood).

    Quote Originally Posted by vera01
    But even if she does jump 3A, remember how Yuna won the Olympics. Mao did 3A there and Yuna was still 20 points ahead of her.
    At that time, Mao had no 3Lz or 3S in her programs, tripped before her 3T and skipped it altogether, and every 3F she landed received some negative GoE from the judges. If it weren't for her triple axels, she wouldn't medal. I've seen some people accuse her of spending too much time working on 3A before the Olympics, but actually, according to a documentary aired after the Olys, Mao spent the most time working on her 3F. There was no time to rework her jumps completely (as it could take 2-4 seasons), so she just stuck to getting 3F solid enough to put into her programs and try to close the point gap left by excluding 3Lz and 3S by doing 3 triple axels.

    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk
    She tried 3A in Nagoya and downgraded it heavily, two-footed.
    It's rather difficult to judge the stability of the jump basing on the performance in shows where the rink size is decreased and/or the show lights make it tricky to attempt upper-tier jumps. A lot of Japanese skaters didn't give their best performances during those shows. And then there's the issue of choreo - after the Nationals Mao said she planned to visit Lori to improve the choreo and make her jumping passes more comfortable to include a 3A or 3-3.

    Personally, more than 3A or lack of thereof, I'm worried about Mao's tight schedule (Nats, JSC, shows, shows, shows, a trip to Canada, 4CC...). Her main competitors will be much better rested in time for Worlds, and in the recent years Mao had a tendency to peak at 4CC. I'm not sure it was wise from JSF to assign Mao, Akiko and Daisuke to 4CC...

  3. #18
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Asada will absolutely need a 3A or 3/3 to win Worlds. She's done very well this season winning everything she entered so far. But Worlds is where everybody steps their game up, and Asada's jumps hasn't really been up to snuff. Plus, there's the matter of Yuna Kim, who doesn't seem to have missed a beat, coming back. The top contenders are all hungry killers. They will all assume that the others will bust out the big guns, so they are going to bring their own. It's an arms race and the motto is BYOB (Bring Your Own Bomb) if you want to win. Can Asada do it? I doubt it.

  4. #19
    Custom Title Cherryy's Avatar
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    Well, IF Mao skates clean she can get 140+ in the LP.
    Her GPF score was almost 130. She underrotated her 2A-3T for which she got 5.9. At NHK she got 8.6 for it, so here we have a 2.7 point difference. She also underrotated her 3F and got 3.5 for it while at NHK it was 6.1 whick gives us 2.6 points more. She doubled a salchow that received 1.3 points, a triple one she performed in China got 4.9, here we get 3.6 points. Summing up, if we substitute her jumping passes that went wrong at GPF with the correctly performed ones at other events this season we get a score of 138.9. She could obviously get a bit higher PCS since it'll be the end of the season and she could improve also on these aspects and get better GOE on other elements so that her final score would be 140+.
    Now, if she is to jump a 3A, where would it be? Probably instead of a 2A-3T since she has been doing practises of her LP with 3A there. It can't be instead of her first jump, 3L because there's too little time for her to prepare for the big thing. The best she ever performed was about 9 points for her triple axel and we all know she's nowhere nere nailing it as she did at Olympics. Then she could make a combo with a 3T, probably 3F-3T so that she would have additionally about 5 points more for the combo and 0.4 for the axel instead of 2A-3T. So theoretically, she could earn 5.4 here and that would give a score of 144.3. But now let's face the truth. Her most recent good attempt at a triple axel was at 2012 4cc LP where she got 4.7 for it. There's no sense to perform it, it just takes too much time and her score with such an axel and a good 3-3 would be 140. So just 1.1 points more than a perfect program with no triple-triple and no 3A, just 2A-3T and 3F.
    If she was to add a 3-3 where do you think it would be? In my opinion Mao would probably upgrade her solo 3F to 3F-3T but then she would have to eliminate one combination and all 3 worth a lot of points. Because I can't imagine her doing a 3F-3T as her last jumping pass even though that would be extremely cool! So where do you think she would jump a triple-triple and what her jump layout would be. I just want to see how many points she could rack up with a triple-triple.
    I know all these are just hypothetical points for a perfect program from Mao but after such a short analysis I can clearly see she should not really concentrate on her 3A, let's be realistic, as much as I love Mao, she won't get her 3A like she did before 2010 and a triple-triple is more achievable.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Asada will absolutely need a 3A or 3/3 to win Worlds. She's done very well this season winning everything she entered so far. But Worlds is where everybody steps their game up, and Asada's jumps hasn't really been up to snuff. Plus, there's the matter of Yuna Kim, who doesn't seem to have missed a beat, coming back. The top contenders are all hungry killers. They will all assume that the others will bust out the big guns, so they are going to bring their own. It's an arms race and the motto is BYOB (Bring Your Own Bomb) if you want to win. Can Asada do it? I doubt it.
    I don't think she'll absolutely need it, but she'll need an error from Yu Na without one. If you think about his, her 3F-2L is only about a point less than a 3T-3T and only about 3 points less than 3Z-3T. Her PCS advantage over those attempting 3Z-3T (e.g. Tuktamysheva) is more than enough to make up for the discrepancy. If the last quadrennial has proved anything it's that you don't need a 3-3 to win if you are a veteran skater. As for the 3A, I think that's beyond her at the moment and she would do better to get her 3-3 back.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherryy View Post
    Well, IF
    Now, if she is to jump a 3A, where would it be? Probably instead of a 2A-3T since she has been doing practises of her LP with 3A there. It can't be instead of her first jump, 3L because there's too little time for her to prepare for the big thing. The best she ever performed was about 9 points for her triple axel and we all know she's nowhere nere nailing it as she did at Olympics. Then she could make a combo with a 3T, probably 3F-3T so that she would have additionally about 5 points more for the combo and 0.4 for the axel instead of 2A-3T. So theoretically, she could earn 5.4 here and that would give a score of 144.3. But now let's face the truth. Her most recent good attempt at a triple axel was at 2012 4cc LP where she got 4.7 for it. There's no sense to perform it, it just takes too much time and her score with such an axel and a good 3-3 would be 140. So just 1.1 points more than a perfect program with no triple-triple and no 3A, just 2A-3T and 3F.
    If she was to add a 3-3 where do you think it would be? In my opinion Mao would probably upgrade her solo 3F to 3F-3T but then she would have to eliminate one combination and all 3 worth a lot of points.
    Anything will depend on what she wants to get from this worlds. Probably a 3axel is not worth the effort, nor the risk as she could place very high with a clean performance (the result will be kind of unpredictable considering that we don't know how Yuna will do it and, even foreseeing a near to perfect competition for her, we don't really know how the pcs will be as they tend to generally increase as time goes by). Anyway, I think she will want to introduce it and that could be her last chance for having it fixed for Sochi (at least mentally)

  7. #22
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    The 3t has never been a strong jump for Mao. She tends to toe-axel. So I'm not sure she is capable of doing a 3/3.

    I'm also not sure she is capable of rotating a 3a any more. She hasn't tried one in a very long time, and the ones she tried post-Vancouver weren't rotated.

    I think the Mao we saw at the GPF was the best Mao we're going to see.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    The 3t has never been a strong jump for Mao. She tends to toe-axel. So I'm not sure she is capable of doing a 3/3.

    I'm also not sure she is capable of rotating a 3a any more. She hasn't tried one in a very long time, and the ones she tried post-Vancouver weren't rotated.

    I think the Mao we saw at the GPF was the best Mao we're going to see.

    Well in case you haven't noticed she has been landing the 3t in combination all season. I respect your views and doubts about Mao, but seriously the 3A Mao landed at Worlds and 4CC were breathtaking, and to claim those jumps never happened is


    (sometimes I wonder if peoples memory really are that short, or if it's just purposely shortens when it concerns certain skaters)

  9. #24
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    no i don't think she will try it. She has been getting the PCS to not really need it.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    Well in case you haven't noticed she has been landing the 3t in combination all season. I respect your views and doubts about Mao, but seriously the 3A Mao landed at Worlds and 4CC were breathtaking, and to claim those jumps never happened is


    (sometimes I wonder if peoples memory really are that short, or if it's just purposely shortens when it concerns certain skaters)
    it shortens when it comes to Mao. To some people she has the worst jumps, her aristry is not enough, she is destroying ice skating by winning this season and so on...... Thank God for youtube, because new fans will probably believe this.

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    And this is why the Ladies have been regressing for the last couple years. Who cares if you can't do the more difficult jumps if you are going to be held up because of your PCS. The younger girls have no chance unless Carolina or Mai fall about 3 times. At least Kim still brings it technically and doesn't water down her jumps.

  12. #27
    The Comeback Kid Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    And this is why the Ladies have been regressing for the last couple years. Who cares if you can't do the more difficult jumps if you are going to be held up because of your PCS. The younger girls have no chance unless Carolina or Mai fall about 3 times. At least Kim still brings it technically and doesn't water down her jumps.
    So iceskating is only about jumping? Some of the younger girls have big jumps but are still missing the PCS. Mao has a layout of 7 triples. This woman decided to rework her jumps and we all know that takes a long time.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    Well in case you haven't noticed she has been landing the 3t in combination all season. I respect your views and doubts about Mao, but seriously the 3A Mao landed at Worlds and 4CC were breathtaking, and to claim those jumps never happened is


    (sometimes I wonder if peoples memory really are that short, or if it's just purposely shortens when it concerns certain skaters)
    OK. here's the history of Mao's jumps starting with 2010 Worlds:

    2010 Worlds
    SP 3a<+2t
    FS 3a, 3a<+2t

    2010 TEB
    SP 3a<<
    FS 1a, 1a

    2010 NHK
    SP 2a
    FS 1a, 1a

    2011 4CC
    SP 3a<
    FS 3a, 2a+3t<

    2011 Worlds
    SP 3a<< fall
    FS 3a<<, 2a+3t<

    2011 NHK
    SP 1a
    FS 2a+3t

    2011 COR
    SP 2a
    FS 2a-so (no 3t)

    2012 4CC
    SP 3a<
    FS 3a<

    2012 Worlds
    SP 3a<<
    FS 1a

    2012 NHK
    SP 2a
    FS 2a+3t

    2012 COC
    SP 2a
    FS 2a+3t<<

    2012 GPF
    SP 2a
    FS 2a+3t<

    Mao has attempted 16 3a since the Olympics. She rotated and landed two, one at Worlds 2010 and one at 4CC 2011. 14 attempts (88%) resulted in 5 URs, 4 DG and 5 pops. She also had six 2a+3t attempts between 4CC 2010 and the GP 2012; three were 3t< and one was 3t<<. Her success rate with 2a+3t is 33.3%.

    My negativity with respect to the 3a and 2a+3t is based on her competition record with those jumps. She has a low success rate with both, but the 3a has been far less successful.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    Well in case you haven't noticed she has been landing the 3t in combination all season. I respect your views and doubts about Mao, but seriously the 3A Mao landed at Worlds and 4CC were breathtaking, and to claim those jumps never happened is
    She has underrotated the triple toe loop in combination with the double axel pretty much every time she's attempted it this season. Her triple flip is also chronically underrotated. The technical callers in Japan are the only ones giving her credit for her cheated jumps.

    So, do I think Mao has the ability to fully rotate a 3A? No, all the attempts I have seen (from the videos of her practices) have been underrotated. And she can't even fully rotate lesser triples these days.

    I don't think Mao can beat Kostner or Kim at Worlds. She can't beat those skaters based on PCS, which his how she has been winning over other skaters this season. And Kostner and Kim are both much better jumpers than Mao is, with high quality jumps and the ability to do triple-triples. Mao is a beautiful, artistic skater, but her wins this season are setting figure skating back. Her jump content/ability isn't even worthy of winning on the junior level.

  15. #30
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I don't think Mao can beat Kostner or Kim at Worlds. She can't beat those skaters based on PCS, which his how she has been winning over other skaters this season. And Kostner and Kim are both much better jumpers than Mao is, with high quality jumps and the ability to do triple-triples. Mao is a beautiful, artistic skater, but her wins this season are setting figure skating back. Her jump content/ability isn't even worthy of winning on the junior level.
    So figure skating is all about the jumps? Besides NHK, which has been discussed ad nauseum, which competition did she not deserve to win so far? If non-jump elements/presentation aren't being rewarded, then there's no incentive for younger skaters to polish those skills since all they have to do is to jump well.

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