Will Asada have the 3A for Worlds? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Will Asada have the 3A for Worlds?

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
However, her 3F-3L is not looking good. In her first combination the flip is not shown well so I don't know about this jump but the 3L is underrotated. In the second combination the 3F would probably be underrotated and the loop definitely downgraded.

Really? I thought it was as if she overrotated her loop in the first attempt shown and hence couldn't control the landing. The height she got on that loop was pretty impressive. As for the second attempt, hard to know if it would be ratified or not. Just have to see, but it would be pretty amazing if it were.

Reports are that Mao was practicing 3F-3T as well. I hope a clip will be shown. It would be amazing if Mao did that combo as well, though if she can succeed in getting her 3F-3L ratified reasonably well, there wouldn't be any place to do that combo.

I'm not expecting a flawless performance at 4CC. But even if she under-rotates some of her jumps, if she can do enough to indicate that she has a good chance of successfully completing a 8 triple program next season, I will jump for joy.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I'd be surprised if she put in the 3F-3L because it didn't look that great in the practice video. I suppose it could make sense to try in the LP if it means that she can do 8 triples instead of 7, but it seems a bit too ambitious to put in two very difficult elements when she has struggled with watered-down content recently.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
That 3A actually looks pretty nice! Yes, it's under-rotated but it would still get abou 6.0, and presumably negative GOE since it was under-rotated. But still that would score better than a 2A with positive GOE. I wonder if she'll attempt it in the short.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
I thought the first 3A in the clip is similar to Takahashi's 4T in many cases. This level of underrotation could be overlooked for some skaters favored by the ISU judges.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
When I see something like this, I'm so glad to be a Mao fan. This girl just never gives up. Between her and YuNa, I feel like a kid in the chocolate section of a candy store.
 

Cherryy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Really? I thought it was as if she overrotated her loop in the first attempt shown and hence couldn't control the landing. The height she got on that loop was pretty impressive. As for the second attempt, hard to know if it would be ratified or not. Just have to see, but it would be pretty amazing if it were.

Reports are that Mao was practicing 3F-3T as well. I hope a clip will be shown. It would be amazing if Mao did that combo as well, though if she can succeed in getting her 3F-3L ratified reasonably well, there wouldn't be any place to do that combo.

I'm not expecting a flawless performance at 4CC. But even if she under-rotates some of her jumps, if she can do enough to indicate that she has a good chance of successfully completing a 8 triple program next season, I will jump for joy.

Unfortunately, the 3L was definitely not overrotated. If you pause the video at the right moment you can see that her blade touches the ice when short of rotation. But yes, the height was nice :). There's no chance Mao would go for two triple-triples and a 3A, no way. But one 3-3 is not out of question, as you provided a link where Mao stated that she will attempt a 3-3. But what's the point in practising a 3F-3L? I'm really wondering because as I've written previously, her solo jump in SP is a 3L so she cannot do a 3F-3L while she could do a 3F-3T. And in the long program she already has two triple loops.
If Mao was going to put a 3A and a 3-3 I think (based on her current jump layout and practise videos) her jump layout would be
3L
3A
3F-3T
3Lz
3S
3L-2L-2L
3F

And yes, I would also jump for joy if she could even indicate there's a chance we'll see a first 8-triple jump program from a lady at the Olympics.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
If Mao was going to put a 3A and a 3-3 I think (based on her current jump layout and practise videos) her jump layout would be
3L
3A
3F-3T
3Lz
3S
3L-2L-2L
3F

And yes, I would also jump for joy if she could even indicate there's a chance we'll see a first 8-triple jump program from a lady at the Olympics.

I'd probably like to see her do a 2A-3T instead of a 3F-3T and swap the lutz for a second flip. She will lose a few points, but won't get an edge call and will have a better change of rotating the 3T.
 

Laughing Man

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Mao did a clean, fully rotated 3A at SP today:)

She certainly did! According to protocols, no URs edge calls for any of her jumps including the 3A!
I don't care how her FP will turn out at this point. Tonight's success was her first step towards getting back what she had lost in the past.
I think Mao proved something very meaningful tonight. It was simply moving.:)
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
She certainly did! According to protocols, no URs edge calls for any of her jumps including the 3A!
I don't care how her FP will turn out at this point. Tonight's success was her first step towards getting back what she had lost in the past.
I think Mao proved something very meaningful tonight. It was simply moving.:)

ITA. She proved today she is a champion. Even with a 2A she probably would have been in the lead. But I don't think it's about the medals at this point for her. She has all the titles, minus the Olympic one and today she took a leap forward do Sochi. She landed the 3A after 2 years! This is amazing!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
She certainly did! According to protocols, no URs edge calls for any of her jumps including the 3A!
I don't care how her FP will turn out at this point. Tonight's success was her first step towards getting back what she had lost in the past.
I think Mao proved something very meaningful tonight. It was simply moving.:)

That's just spectacular!

It just goes to show that one should never give up on this girl.
 

Laughing Man

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
That's just spectacular!

It just goes to show that one should never give up on this girl.

Sure does! After seeing Mao succeed her 3A today, I realised that the phrase 'winning isn't everything' doesn't just mean even if you lose it's okay cause you tried your best sort of thing...Probabaly for a skater like Mao, 'winning isn't everything' means 'how you win is what really counts'. I'm sure Mao wants to win 4CC as much as any other skater. However to her, all the victories she managed during this season never made her totally satisfied nor happy. She wanted to win with a 3A. She said in an interview before the competition started that her 3A success rate was around 60%, plus in a run-through it was only 40~50%. Still, she said she would go for it. That's the kind of spirit I love in an athlete. Overcoming fear and taking the risk. She may not succeed another 3A nor a 3-3 in her FP, but this was her first step to become the skater she wants to be once again.

But it's not just Mao...all top skaters never give up on improving themselves or trying to keep difficult elements which they've achieved even as they age. Yuna's managed to keep her 3lz-3t even after her absence, Pattie has been trying hard to stabilize his 4-3 again...some people always seem to have trouble believing me when I say this, but I admire them as much as Mao who has been my long time fave skater. I may not be a fan of all skaters, but I do respect and appreciate them.

As for the 70% rotation rule matter, I am all for it! This sport has evolved throughout the decades. Long ago ladies only jumped doubles. Lots of men had trouble just jumping a 3lz. Then came the Russian guys who started jumping quads and hightened the level of the sport. Weren't you all excited to see Yag and Plushy compete? But the DG rates were so harsh, many men avoided quads for quite some time. Joubert, Takahashi, Oda and Kozuka kept on attempting knowing the risks, and when they failed to rotate even just a little bit, it cost them dearly. But after the 70% rule, Pattie started jumping fantastic quads which led the other guys to follow the same path, and now mens singles are becoming exciting once again. Many ladies jumping 3t-3t wouldn't have happened either if it weren't for the 70% rule I think, and I'm happy to see Gracie, Adelina, and Liza attempting much harder 3-3s. If it would encourage the skaters to try to achieve and attempt more difficult jumps, I don't see anything bad in this rule. This is a rule for all skaters, and even Verner who says he doesn't like it will be rewarded fairly by it at times. I'm not a skater so I can only imagine, but it must take alot of guts to go for a quad or a 3-3. I don't see any reason why skaters should not be rewarded at all just because of a slight UR. They still do have DG anyway, too. I find it very strange that some of you think this rule is not fair. It's a rule and that means it applies to all skaters, I see nothing unfair in that at all.

Sport is about challenge and attempting something which is hard to succeed. All the skaters practice hard to become able to do what they couldn't at first. A rule which encourages them to go on aiming for something higher cannot possibly be a bad nor unfair rule.
 

venlac

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Sure does! After seeing Mao succeed her 3A today, I realised that the phrase 'winning isn't everything' doesn't just mean even if you lose it's okay cause you tried your best sort of thing...Probabaly for a skater like Mao, 'winning isn't everything' means 'how you win is what really counts'. I'm sure Mao wants to win 4CC as much as any other skater. However to her, all the victories she managed during this season never made her totally satisfied nor happy. She wanted to win with a 3A. She said in an interview before the competition started that her 3A success rate was around 60%, plus in a run-through it was only 40~50%. Still, she said she would go for it. That's the kind of spirit I love in an athlete. Overcoming fear and taking the risk. She may not succeed another 3A nor a 3-3 in her FP, but this was her first step to become the skater she wants to be once again.

In olympics, she landed 3A. but did not seem happy at all. even though she recieved Silver medal.
when she is Number 2 or 3, she didn't seems satisfied and smiling faces.
'winning isn't everything?' she is real fighter for gold medal

As for the 70% rotation rule matter, I am all for it! This sport has evolved throughout the decades. Long ago ladies only jumped doubles. Lots of men had trouble just jumping a 3lz. Then came the Russian guys who started jumping quads and hightened the level of the sport. Weren't you all excited to see Yag and Plushy compete? But the DG rates were so harsh, many men avoided quads for quite some time. Joubert, Takahashi, Oda and Kozuka kept on attempting knowing the risks, and when they failed to rotate even just a little bit, it cost them dearly. But after the 70% rule, Pattie started jumping fantastic quads which led the other guys to follow the same path, and now mens singles are becoming exciting once again. Many ladies jumping 3t-3t wouldn't have happened either if it weren't for the 70% rule I think, and I'm happy to see Gracie, Adelina, and Liza attempting much harder 3-3s. If it would encourage the skaters to try to achieve and attempt more difficult jumps, I don't see anything bad in this rule. This is a rule for all skaters, and even Verner who says he doesn't like it will be rewarded fairly by it at times. I'm not a skater so I can only imagine, but it must take alot of guts to go for a quad or a 3-3. I don't see any reason why skaters should not be rewarded at all just because of a slight UR. They still do have DG anyway, too. I find it very strange that some of you think this rule is not fair. It's a rule and that means it applies to all skaters, I see nothing unfair in that at all.

Sport is about challenge and attempting something which is hard to succeed. All the skaters practice hard to become able to do what they couldn't at first. A rule which encourages them to go on aiming for something higher cannot possibly be a bad nor unfair rule.

problem about 70% rule, and skaters trying to high level jump...
I think it's the problem that difference of the values ​​on each skaters.
for example, 2 top ladies, yuna and mao.

mao
she said "Not challenge each year you will not grow.""I always aim higher."
yuna, she said
"What I want to avoid is staying at the same place. As I improve in skills, musical interpretations, and acting, I am able to approach each element of my programs with perfection which makes me satisfied with myself."
"I hope that I and everyone watching my performances will not feel joy or sorry accompanied by the colors of the medals, but share joy and happiness that I'll deliver through the music and my performances"
 
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Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Why is Mao so hung up on the triple axel? It seems like because of her obsession with that jump she's let some of her other triple jumps become shaky and she still can't do a 3-3 combo like most of the other ladies are doing.
 

Laughing Man

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
In olympics, she landed 3A. but did not seem happy at all. even though she recieved Silver medal.
when she is Number 2 or 3, she didn't seems satisfied and smiling faces.
'winning isn't everything?' she is real fighter for gold medal


Of course she's a fighter for winning gold. I never said she wasn't. Plz read my former post more carefully. I'm only saying that Mao will never be totally happy nor satisfied unless she wins without a 3A and most likely also a 3-3. Just like Takahashi kept saying he doesn't want to win Olys without a quad, Mao prefers to win competitions with a 3A. She's been working on that jump with her deceased mother since childhood. It's something very special to her. Before Vancouver Olys, she was only able to focus on her 3A with her coach not being able to work with her most of the time, and Yuna had fantastic jumps so I assume she felt the only chance she had then was to increase the number of her 3As. And I do not think it's fair to say 'winning isn't everthing' does not apply to Mao just because she was disappointed when she found out she didn't make top of the podium in Olys. Olys is a special event for all athletes. Many of them spend most of their lives to win Olys gold. Still, even if Mao should win Olys someday with no 3A or 3-3, I don't think she would be satisfied. She may not be sad, but she won't be totally satisfied.

problem about 70% rule, and skaters trying to high level jump...
I think it's the problem that difference of the values ​​on each skaters.
for example, 2 top ladies, yuna and mao.

mao
she said "Not challenge each year you will not grow.""I always aim higher."
yuna, she said
"What I want to avoid is staying at the same place. As I improve in skills, musical interpretations, and acting, I am able to approach each element of my programs with perfection which makes me satisfied with myself."
"I hope that I and everyone watching my performances will not feel joy or sorry accompanied by the colors of the medals, but share joy and happiness that I'll deliver through the music and my performances"

Sorry...I don't quite understand what you're trying to say about the 70% rule by comparing Mao and Yuna's words. First of all, I don't see that much of a difference in what they've said. Mao said she wants to go on challenging new things, Yuna said she doesn't want to stay in the same place but try to polish what she can do to make it better and better. Their approach may be different, but their wishes to evolve seem quite similar to me. Plus just because Mao likes to try out new things, it doesn't mean she doesn't feel the need to perfect them either. Yuna's jumps have always been more consistant than Mao's, so that might give us the impression that she doesn't benefit from the 70% rule. But can you be totally sure that Yuna will never UR even just a slight bit? Would you prefer her to lose most or all of her base points along with -GOEs? I think that would be too harsh on Yuna or for any other skater. Even great top skaters like Yuna might have a minor injury, problems in adjusting to new skating boots, catch a flu, or just happen to have an unlucky day in some competition. As a result there's a possibilty that even such good jumpers can end up URing. But with the 70% rule, they may still be able to win or at least make the podium. I think all skaters deserve a break like that. Sure Mao URs more than Yuna so far; she's been reforming all her jumps from scratch after Vancouver Olys, what can you expect? And her 3A is an extremely difficult jump, even for the guys. Of course Mao has a higher chance of URing her 3As.

But the rule book does not say that the 70% rule only applys to 3As and quads.

The guys who attempt quads are not aiming for a 70% UR jump, just as Mao isn't aiming for a UR 3A. They're all practicing to aim for a clean perfectly rotated jump, just like Yuna has been working hard to perfect her jumps. All skaters are always under the risk of URing no matter how good they are, and therefore you can never determine who will and who will not benefit from this rule.

One of the reasons I'm glad Yuna decided to come back is because of her brilliant 3-3. Yuna coming back into competition will stimulate many other girls to attempt more and more difficult combos. However, for many girls it will be terribly risky and frightening. That's were the 70% rule will come in and push their backs. Wouldn't that be more exciting? Don't we want to see competitions like that? I for one certainly would.

In anycase, skaters who only get UR scores will never be able to beat a skater with fully rotated jumps (of course, provided that the judges do their jobs correctly :sarcasm:). A skater who URs will be rewarded accordingly, while a skater who doesn't will be rewarded more; fair and square. Even if a 70% score for some difficult jumps may still be quite high, they should not be rewarded in GOEs as they are handed out after the tech callers inform them that a jump is URd or DGd (yes, once again provided that the judges do their jobs right...which I admit they are not always so good at. :disapp: But that's another issue, which is not in anyway some kind of proof to back up that the 70% rule is unfair).

There are many rules in this sport, and some skaters may benefit more from them compared to others at times depending on their performances. In that sense, there are lots of rules I don't like too, but I don't complain about them. Why not? Because, I repeat: the same rules apply to everyone. You can debate whether you like a rule or not, whether a rule is good or bad for the sport, but it's logically wrong to claim a rule is unfair as long as it's a condition given equally to all the competitors.

But then again, all these are just my personal views. If anyone thinks otherwise, I will not agree, but I will respect their opinions. :)
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I think it would be a good thing for the sport if the younger girls beat the older established Ladies like Kostner or Mao if they were only landing 3 or 4 triples. It will make them have to push themselves to keep up and that's the way it should be. But as it is now i think Mao or Kostner could win with a 3 triple performance because they get such high PCS and that's not pushing the sport forward at all.
 

rondoboy

Rinkside
Joined
May 5, 2010
But as it is now i think Mao or Kostner could win with a 3 triple performance because they get such high PCS

Deservingly so. And that's why those young skaters with great jumps would work harder to improve their SKATING SKILLs, which I think pushes the sport forward.
 

Laughing Man

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Why is Mao so hung up on the triple axel? It seems like because of her obsession with that jump she's let some of her other triple jumps become shaky and she still can't do a 3-3 combo like most of the other ladies are doing.

Mao had worked on her 3A along with her deceased mother since childhood. That jump means alot to her. She lost her mother and that will never change, but she wanted once again to achieve the jump she had lost after Vancouver Olys. It had been their dream for Mao to win Olys with a 3A. I have no idea whether that will ever happen, but Mao does not want to give up no matter what.
 
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