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Thread: Here's the Finnstep

  1. #46
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    One of my favorite versions of the Quickstep is Torvill & Dean's Puttin' on the Ritz, circa 1982 at St. Ivel's competition in England. I am lousy at linking but I'm sure most of you can find it.

  2. #47
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Thanks,, Mathman.

  4. #49
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    One question. Does a difficult dance automatically translate to a difficult SD step pattern re: levels? Because everyone seems to agree that the Golden Waltz is very challenging (Alex Shibutani said it should be called the "really-hard-waltz") but of the 25 entrants at Worlds, only 6 didn't have at least one level four (and only four dropped down to level two for one of the patterns). The Rhumba, a compulsory dance Charlie White had actually complained of as lacking content (way back in 2007), saw only 8 score a level four Rhumba sequence at Worlds 2012. V/M had two international SDs in 2010/11 and scored level four on three of the four Golden Waltz patterns. Which is more than they scored all season in the 11/12 SD.

  5. #50
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    It depends a good deal on how the key points are described, and how the tech callers call them, whether they are hard to do or not.

    When White complained the Rhumba had no content back in 2007, no one had any inkling of key points being described the way they were, and dancers being held to them with close up slo mo replays.

    I remember Platov being interviewed about the Rhumba key points and him saying no one ever hit them that way when he was skating. Recall this is the only ever two time Olympic dance champion talking; he said his partner never hit that rhumba key point as it was now described.

  6. #51
    ISU, stop promoting 2-foot skating!
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    It's quite depressing nobody used to skate the compulsory dances on correct edges until the introduction of keypoints (and even now it's just the four steps that get looked at). :P

  7. #52
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, it is depressing.

    And they didn't used to insist that the steps needed to go on the correct beats either.

    It was all about having lovely extended, matching lines & good speed, and perhaps, conveying the character of the dance, maybe a little.

    Skating close was valued, and in the days of Torvill & Dean, having all 3 patterns lie exactly over each other, like a school figure (something T&D were very, very good at-better than a lot of singles doing school figures. It was amazing.)

    By the days of Anissina & Peizerat, no one cared if the patterns overlaid each other at all.

    But at no time since 1980, if you did a Choctaw on a flat, did anyone care, I'm sorry to say. (Before that, I didn't see the CD's on TV to see how they were judged at the elite level).

    I suspect in the 1930's they were very picky-the description came from somewhere, somewhen after all.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 02-24-2013 at 02:46 PM.

  8. #53
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    How do they determine the level that a dance pair earns on the CD sequences?

    Theoretically, they're all doing the same sequence, right? So, what's the difference between a level 2 and a level 3, for example?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Anstasia Cannuscio twweted this, with the comment "I'm scared!"

    http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCRsK-_CYAA3X69.jpg:large

    In compulsory patterns, are the dancers expected to hit every one of these turns and edges in perfect precision and right to the beat?
    In a word "yes", but that is the case for every set pattern dance from the simple "Dutch Waltz" (first basic dance every skater must learn) to the more complicated such as the above "Finnstep." Thank goodness I missed this one. If you listen to Tracy Wilson's commentary on Ice Dance she points out that Ice Dancers are conditioned to do difficult steps and precise edges. In fact, they live for challenging dances like this. Think of the set pattern dance as the figures of ice dancers. They are to ice dancers what figures mean to single skaters. If ice dancers can master these steps and remember these steps and patterns when they are training then it prepares them for their short and long programs if they choose to compete on that level. Even Kurt Browning said during his coverage of 4 continents ice dance that single skaters from his day could likely not master the difficult twizzle move on done in both directions by the ice dancers of today. That saying a lot!!

  10. #55
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    How do they determine the level that a dance pair earns on the CD sequences?

    Theoretically, they're all doing the same sequence, right? So, what's the difference between a level 2 and a level 3, for example?
    From the Handbook for the Tech Panel, page 14

    Each pattern dance sequence (called "element" here) has three key points assigned.

    For level 1, no key points are judged correctly completed but:
    75% of Pattern Dance Element is completed by both partners
    For level 2:

    Pattern Dance Element is not interrupted more than 4 beats in total, either through Stumbles, Falls or any other reason
    AND
    1 Key Point is correctly executed
    For level 3
    Pattern Dance Element is not interrupted more than 4 beats in total, either through Stumbles, Falls or any other reason
    AND
    2 Key Points are correctly executed
    For level 4
    Pattern Dance Element is not interrupted at all, either through Stumbles, Falls or any other reason
    AND
    3 Key Points are correctly executed
    To get credit for a key point, the step(s) involved must be executed exactly as described in the rules. If this is true, you will see a Y for that key point on the protocol. If not executed correctly, you will see an N for that key point

    If the step is done correctly, but not on the correct beat of the music, the key point is not completed for the purpose of assigning a level, and you will see a T (for timing fault) for that key point.

    Note from the rules, even if the key points are judged correctly completed, including being on the correct beat of the music, the team will not earn a level 4 unless all the other steps are done.

  11. #56
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    News ISU has published Ice Dance Technical Requirements Season 2013-14 (Mar 5)

    ISU has published Ice Dance Technical Requirements Season 2013-14 (Mar 5)

    Ice Dance Technical Requirements Season 2013-14
    05 March 2013
    ISU Communication 1782 has been published.

    The document is an 8-page PDF.
    * Finnstep key points are on p. 5. *

    As previously announced:

    SD rhythm options for Seniors are:
    - Quickstep
    or
    - Quickstep plus one or two of the following Rhythms: Foxtrot, Charleston, Swing.
    The Pattern Dance Elements must be skated on the Quickstep Rhythm, in the style of Quickstep. The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance Finnstep, i.e. 52 measures of two beats or 104 beats per minute, plus or minus 2 beats per minute.

    Pattern Dance Elements for Seniors:
    Two (2) Sections of Finnstep
     Section 1: Steps # 1-27
     Section 2: Steps # 28-70
    skated one after the other, Section 1 followed by Section 2, with Step # 1 skated on the Judges’ side.
    Last edited by golden411; 03-06-2013 at 12:23 AM.

  12. #57
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    Considering that the Olympics tends to bring one Angst Dance number after another for the Free (I thought if I heard Requiem for a Dream one more time in 2010 I would go mad), it will be a nice change of pace to see light, exuberant short dances. Looking forward to it!

  13. #58
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    And yes, the key points for the Finnstep (and Quickstep, which is a different dance, for the Juniors) are in that document that golden411 linked.

    Sequence 1
    Key point 1-this is odd, since the steps are not sequential!
    Lady & Man Steps 1 & 4 (XB-RF, XB-LF) and Lady Step 12 (LFO Tw1½ (Left Forward Outside one and a half rotation twizzle)
    1. XB-RF: free leg crossed behind the skating leg below the knee (Cross behind to right forward)
    2. XB-LF: free leg crossed behind the skating leg below the knee (Cross behind to right forward)
    3. Tw1½: correct Turn

    Keypoint 2
    Lady Steps 20-21 (XB-LBO, XF-RBI/RBI Tw1½/RFO)
    1. Tw1½: correct Turn
    2. XB-LBO: free leg crossed behind the skating leg below the knee
    3. XF-RBI: free leg crossed in front of the skating leg below the knee
    4. Correct Edge (RFO) after Tw1½

    Those guys better learn how to exit exactly in half a twizzle.

    Keypoint 3
    Man Steps 20-21 (XB-LFI, RFO-Sw3/RBI Tw1/RBI)
    1. Sw3, Tw1: correct Turns
    2. Sw3: correct swing movement of the free leg
    3. XB-LFI: free leg crossed behind the skating leg below the knee
    4. Correct Edge (RBI) after Tw1


    Sequence 2:
    Key Point 1
    The first 2 will be easy to spot because not only is there a Closed Choctaw, there is a slide into a stop)

    Lady Steps 32 & 33 (LFO Sw-ClCho, RBI/RBO/RBO Tw1½/RFI slide into stop)
    1. Correct Edges
    2. Sw-ClCho, Tw1½: correct Turns
    3. Sw-ClCho: correct placement of the free foot
    4. Sw-ClCho: correct swing movement of the free leg
    5. Correct Change of Edge (Inside to Outside)

    Key Point 2
    Key Point 2 Man Steps 32 to 33c (LFO Sw-ClCho, RBI OpMo, LFI, RFI/RFI Tw1/RFI slide into stop)

    1. Correct Edges
    2. Sw-ClCho, Tw1: correct Turns
    3. Sw-ClCho: correct placement of the free foot
    4. Sw-ClCho: correct swing movement of the free leg

    Key Point 3

    Lady & Man Steps 64 & 65 (LFI XB-ClCho, RBO3/RFI Tw1½)
    1. Correct Edges
    2. ClCho, 3, Tw1½: correct Turns
    3. XB-ClCho: correct placement of the free foot

    I got one KP in the first sequence, and all 3 in the second, but they did not split the dance at the 35 step point, so I didn't guess them placed in the right sequences .

    By the way, this ISU Communication 1728 confirms that the optional rhythams for senior are Foxtrot, Charleston, Swing.
    and for Junior Foxtrot, Charleston
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 03-06-2013 at 10:41 AM.

  14. #59
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    I think younger skaters like A/E, I/K and S/B(if they decide to make a debut on a senior level) woud have problems with next season's SD. Definitely not a great season to make a senior debut..

  15. #60
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I wonder whether this will feed into S&B's decision (or the Russian Fed's decision) on whether to go senior or not?

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