Yuzuru Hanyu's progress under Orser

[jjane45]

Hanyu has regressed artistically with Orser, a lot. In the Long Program anyway.

In the same TV documentary mentioned above, at 20:30 Orser said the following:

He is going from a young man to a man, and his skating will mature, and I think that's we need to work on the most, just the maturity of his skating, and that has to be natural.

Maybe it's an experiment to bring out the subtle side of him by controlling his emotions.

Although it's a huge change, if not a let down, from the dramatic Romeo & Juliet last season.

He said when he was about 15 that he is good at math,bad at grammer and English.I guess that explain why he can only spitting out disconnected words but no complete sentence so far.

He is still a kid! Kids learn languages lightning fast!

[Li'Kitsu]

He is still a kid! Kids learn languages lightning fast!

He's 18

This kind of learning, where you pretty much absorp everything you hear like nothing, ends way earlier than 18. Little children can do that. I'm not too sure when exactly that ends, but I think it was more in the 12-years-old range.
Besides that, some people just don't have it with languages that much (I like how he's rather good in math! )

Hanyu already has a pretty tough schedule, so maybe learning English will still take some time. He seems to be fine comunicating with Fernandez though.

I like how Orser focused on Hanyu's basic skating skills. I don't see any artistical regression at all, it's just that his FS this year doesn't really convince me... but if you look at his SP, it's not as if the boy wasn't capable anymore. With Kozuka not on the team, I'd say Hanyu has the best SP for worlds this year - with Fernandez having the best FS. So Team Borser is doing pretty well, obviously.

Besides, I really like the relationship between Orser and Hanyus one and only true coach, Winnieh the Pooh! Before, Orser was laughing about the Pooh bear, now he has to hold it while Yuzuru skates.
And Fernandez has a Mickey Mouse tissue box now. It's really lovely to see how Fernandez and Hanyu get along.

[Kalina]

He's 18

This kind of learning, where you pretty much absorp everything you hear like nothing, ends way earlier than 18. Little children can do that. I'm not too sure when exactly that ends, but I think it was more in the 12-years-old range.
Besides that, some people just don't have it with languages that much (I like how he's rather good in math! )

Yes, we are much more receptive to learning new languages when we are prepubertal.
And it is much more difficult for Japanese people to learn English than it would be for someone who comes from one of the main Indoeuropean languages. There are no similarities in the lexicon, and from a linguistic typology point of view, there are many differences -- most notably, English is a SVO language, Japanese a SOV language. German, for example, being a SOV language as well is much closer to how Japanese constructs sentences.
He'll learn eventually, but it will take time. If he'd gone to school in Canada it would have been much easier, I don't think there are too many chances of practicing English at the rink. Having someone teaching him, even if just for one hour a week, would be helpful, imo.

[let`s talk]

Now we can talk rationally about the yuzu's achievement this season.

Lol! The title of this thread is sooo biased that can suggest nothing rational apriori. Because everyone who is not singing arias to Orser for the kid's progress technically will be posting offtopic. So, by the title it's supposed to be one more Cricket Club ubers thread, pretty much the same as Yuzu fan thread has become. Perhaps it's precisely the idea of "rational" for Orser ubers. But I am not the one. With Orser Hanyu regressed in all skating aspects and grossly progressed only in one- Politics/Corruption/Scum (PCS). Actually Hanyu is not the first Orser guy in it but that's beside the point. His stamina looks way worn and weak that doesn't allow him to finish FS without running out of gas. As for jumps I am not buying that it's Orser's work. Yuzu already had 4T when he came to Toronto and nobody knows if he could become the same way more consistent in it under Abe. The 4S that Orser presumably gave him goes from two feet and therefore looks quite ugly. Hanyu still doesn't have any quad combo while all top skaters actually have. His lines and postures, that used to be of a young tree, I mean not super "fixed" but alive and vibrating, got turned into a teen Quasimodo hunchbacked in spins (those got slower too) and round-shouldered in exits, steps, etc. I already posted these links on another thread, here is his sitspin in R&J: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFECk7AFMRo&t=5m17s and here in the current FP: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHXt4d6itcY&t=5m12s Is it progressed? Where? How about the exit from 3A here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYkGYMYW69c&t=2m24s and this young-eagle-like: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wICH1Jpsq8M&t=0m06s . His SP is a Comic Blues and FS is skating elements. About private life, Yuzu had about 40 shows in summer before Orser, last season Orser allowed him to do less than.. 20? And therefore Yuzu earned twice less. In the recent interview with Orser to Russian media he sounded that Hanyu is homesick. And I actually tend to believe it. But the worst and the most serious damage that was done to Hanyu is his PR image of a grossly overscored skater. Someone here mentioned his records in SP and win at JN? His records in SP made people speak about giving two separate medals for these two segments and calculate a 3-fall cusion in FS after such wins in SP. If these record scores would be considered as fair by public, such negativity wouldn't come up. JN? Then how did it happen that the winner of JN has more than twice less views on the same youtube channel than dejure a silver guy? Because that is not how a JN champion greeted in K&C, don't listen to Orser's noise, listen to the public: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpB5jaiA27s&t=8m56s Yeah, that's better than this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuJfGH4bFTM&t=7m55s but J-audience don't boo. You want to know how the true winners are treated? Try here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtoUoiorSQ8&t=8m45s or here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJtNXvyWbg&t=6m10s

Hanyu should get free and independent, get his own agent, earn fair medals and have a long outstanding career like Dai or Plu. Otherwise he will end up in Evan/Chan/Sarah/Sale "Hall of Fame".

Orser considers Javier the favourite for the OGM...
This was said in person, actually (some time this past fall).

Seriously? Oh.. You should make a phone call to JSF. They are wearing their butts in promoting the guy left and right: Fuji One with starting the series of progs right on Feb 11, i.e. when 4CC are over, about JN but under the title "Hanyu, 13-17yo" as if Mura and Dai were not even there. Number Feb issue (announced already) with Hanyu on the cover. As if they all know in advance who 4CC winner is. What kind of true athlete would want to get such favors? The most hillarious part is there are fans who actually wish the kid such fate. You are saying that Orser is betting on another guy. That's funny. I hope Hashimoto is reading this.

[Olympia]

Yes, we are much more receptive to learning new languages when we are prepubertal.
And it is much more difficult for Japanese people to learn English than it would be for someone who comes from one of the main Indoeuropean languages. There are no similarities in the lexicon, and from a linguistic typology point of view, there are many differences -- most notably, English is a SVO language, Japanese a SOV language. German, for example, being a SOV language as well is much closer to how Japanese constructs sentences.
He'll learn eventually, but it will take time. If he'd gone to school in Canada it would have been much easier, I don't think there are too many chances of practicing English at the rink. Having someone teaching him, even if just for one hour a week, would be helpful, imo.

I imagine that it's far more of a challenge to learn a language outside of one's linguistic family--even a different writing system. I've always stayed inside the group of Indo-European languages and never even ventured outside the Roman alphabet. A friend of mine was learning Japanese (she's over forty) and enjoying it, but I don't know how conversational she got.

The Japanese skater who amazes me in this regard is Yuka Sato, who I think started learning English when she was older than Hanyu. (I don't get the impression she studied it as a child, but I could be wrong.) She says she learned a lot of it from watching movies, as I recall. I'm sure her guy, Jason Dunjen, was a bit of help as well, of course. I wonder whether he's learned any Japanese. Yuka's English was gorgeous from the first time I heard her speak it: slow and deliberate cadence but well constructed sentences, nicely chosen wording.

I get the impression that both Katia Gordeyeva and Ilia Kulik have a facility for learning languages. Katia spoke just a few words during the 1988 Calgary Olympics, during the Soviet era, but she became pretty fluent once she and Sergei moved to the U.S., and in interviews, she always spoke for the pair; I never heard Sergei open his mouth on camera. In contrast to Sergei, Ilia was fluent from the first interview I ever heard with him.

[MaiKatze]

If a guy like Yuzuru who doesn't have a talent for languages? then his lack of progress isn't that surprising. I think the communication problems are a huge issue, tbh. Sure he isn't in Canada to study English, but communication is key in almost everything in life.

I'm really surprised that Brian Orser would say that Javier is his personal bet on the OGM. He can think this all he wants. Many people probably agree with this, but I would never spoken this out loud. (Not just because of Yuzuru, if he would have said he thinks Yuzuru is the one, it would have been a questionable statement in regards to Javier as well)

[dorispulaski]

Friends of mine who speak a lot of languages always tell me that after the third one, learning a language is a process for them, and easier.

(You can't prove it by me While I can learn to read other languages fairly well, I have no ear for speaking them)

Another skater who is amazing with languages, AFAIR, is Lucinda Ruh.

[giulia95]

I'm really surprised that Brian Orser would say that Javier is his personal bet on the OGM. He can think this all he wants. Many people probably agree with this, but I would never spoken this out loud. (Not just because of Yuzuru, if he would have said he thinks Yuzuru is the one, it would have been a questionable statement in regards to Javier as well)

once again I'm speechless...

fortunately Javi & Yuzu are both so smart , mature and supportive each other , it's such a pleasure to watch them interacting during competitions..

it must be very hard to be a foreign skater in a foreign country....

[sweet_Michelle]

The Japanese skater who amazes me in this regard is Yuka Sato, who I think started learning English when she was older than Hanyu. (I don't get the impression she studied it as a child, but I could be wrong.) She says she learned a lot of it from watching movies, as I recall. I'm sure her guy, Jason Dunjen, was a bit of help as well, of course. I wonder whether he's learned any Japanese. Yuka's English was gorgeous from the first time I heard her speak it: slow and deliberate cadence but well constructed sentences, nicely chosen wording.

Agree, learning English from Movie is helpful, some of words are easier to memorize if there's a conversation/content behind it, and watching the same movie over and over again helps to get familiar with expressions and tones while speaking. And yes yes, people always say the best way of learning language is "pillow talk". So maybe Yuzu can make progress in English by watching some English TV series instead of playing video game at home, or...simply by getting a girl friend who speaks English, lol...Just kidding.
I believe Yuzu well learn the language good enough someday, he is such a lovely young man, and really gets alone with people around, with such good English environment, it's just a matter of time.

[Kalina]

It always seemed to me that japanese speakers generally have a hard time with english. I lived in a shared-flat in Australia with japanese friends and some of them could barely build a simple structured sentence. Real conversation in english was nearly impossible. Being German myself, and knowing quite a few japanese people in Germany in my opinion I may add that it is the same case with german. It is not easy for the them, even people who lived in Germany 10 years+ have problems. German and Japanese are not similar in any way. Add a guy like Yuzuru who doesn't have a talent for languages? then his lack of progress isn't that surprising. I think the communication problems are a huge issue, tbh. Sure he isn't in Canada to study English, but communication is key in almost everything in life.

We are speaking about different things Of course German and Japanese are not similar (not like, say, Italian and Spanish), but they are more similar than Japanese and English. What they share is the same way of constructing sentences, the same order (the subject first, the object in the middle, and the verb at the end -- this as a general rule). English, on the other hand, puts the subject first, then the verb, then the object. This is an added difficulty, that German doesn't have. It doesn't mean that German is easy for them, just relatively easier.
All languages around the world share some similarities in their structural features, even though they belong to different families and are seemingly unrelated. Linguistic typology is the branch of linguistics that studies these similarities.
I'll get less technical next time, sorry

[giulia95]

Lol! The title of this thread is sooo biased that can suggest nothing rational apriori. Because everyone who is not singing arias to Orser for the kid's progress technically will be posting offtopic. So, by the title it's supposed to be one more Cricket Club ubers thread, pretty much the same as Yuzu fan thread has become. Perhaps it's precisely the idea of "rational" for Orser ubers. But I am not the one. With Orser Hanyu regressed in all skating aspects and grossly progressed only in one- Politics/Corruption/Scum (PCS). Actually Hanyu is not the first Orser guy in it but that's beside the point. His stamina looks way worn and weak that doesn't allow him to finish FS without running out of gas. As for jumps I am not buying that it's Orser's work. Yuzu already had 4T when he came to Toronto and nobody knows if he could become the same way more consistent in it under Abe. The 4S that Orser presumably gave him goes from two feet and therefore looks quite ugly. Hanyu still doesn't have any quad combo while all top skaters actually have. His lines and postures, that used to be of a young tree, I mean not super "fixed" but alive and vibrating, got turned into a teen Quasimodo hunchbacked in spins (those got slower too) and round-shouldered in exits, steps, etc. I already posted these links on another thread, here is his sitspin in R&J: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFECk7AFMRo&t=5m17s and here in the current FP: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHXt4d6itcY&t=5m12s Is it progressed? Where? How about the exit from 3A here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYkGYMYW69c&t=2m24s and this young-eagle-like: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wICH1Jpsq8M&t=0m06s . His SP is a Comic Blues and FS is skating elements. About private life, Yuzu had about 40 shows in summer before Orser, last season Orser allowed him to do less than.. 20? And therefore Yuzu earned twice less. In the recent interview with Orser to Russian media he sounded that Hanyu is homesick. And I actually tend to believe it. But the worst and the most serious damage that was done to Hanyu is his PR image of a grossly overscored skater. Someone here mentioned his records in SP and win at JN? His records in SP made people speak about giving two separate medals for these two segments and calculate a 3-fall cusion in FS after such wins in SP. If these record scores would be considered as fair by public, such negativity wouldn't come up. JN? Then how did it happen that the winner of JN has more than twice less views on the same youtube channel than dejure a silver guy? Because that is not how a JN champion greeted in K&C, don't listen to Orser's noise, listen to the public: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpB5jaiA27s&t=8m56s Yeah, that's better than this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuJfGH4bFTM&t=7m55s but J-audience don't boo. You want to know how the true winners are treated? Try here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtoUoiorSQ8&t=8m45s or here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJtNXvyWbg&t=6m10s

Hanyu should get free and independent, get his own agent, earn fair medals and have a long outstanding career like Dai or Plu. Otherwise he will end up in Evan/Chan/Sarah/Sale "Hall of Fame".
Seriously? Oh.. You should make a phone call to JSF. They are wearing their butts in promoting the guy left and right: Fuji One with starting the series of progs right on Feb 11, i.e. when 4CC are over, about JN but under the title "Hanyu, 13-17yo" as if Mura and Dai were not even there. Number Feb issue (announced already) with Hanyu on the cover. As if they all know in advance who 4CC winner is. What kind of true athlete would want to get such favors? The most hillarious part is there are fans who actually wish the kid such fate. You are saying that Orser is betting on another guy. That's funny. I hope Hashimoto is reading this.

the analysis is detailed and complete, unfortunately...

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Seriously? Oh.. You should make a phone call to JSF. They are wearing their butts in promoting the guy left and right: Fuji One with starting the series of progs right on Feb 11, i.e. when 4CC are over, about JN but under the title "Hanyu, 13-17yo" as if Mura and Dai were not even there. Number Feb issue (announced already) with Hanyu on the cover. As if they all know in advance who 4CC winner is. What kind of true athlete would want to get such favors? The most hillarious part is there are fans who actually wish the kid such fate. You are saying that Orser is betting on another guy. That's funny. I hope Hashimoto is reading this.

Why? He simply said he expects one to win over the other. They can't both win. Sure, he could have been diplomatic and said they'll go 1-2, but I don't think there's anything wrong in his comment as he's simply stating his opinion. If Orser says that Yu Na is likely to be the Sochi OGM, should Elene be offended or break things off with him, even if it's true?

[giulia95]

Why? He simply said he expects one to win over the other. They can't both win. Sure, he could have been diplomatic and said they'll go 1-2, but I don't think there's anything wrong in his comment as he's simply stating his opinion.

I think it's not a question of being diplomatic, it’s just an unprofessional and unethical behaviour..

[Jaana]

It seems somehow too odd for Orser really having made a remark like that, considering that both are his skaters. I´d rather believe that the sentence was either taken out of context or not said at all (if there was an interview link, I must have missed it).

[glam]

He said when he was about 15 that he is good at math,bad at grammer and English.I guess that explain why he can only spitting out disconnected words but no complete sentence so far.

So he has been studying English for over 3 years now but still can't say sentences??