2013 4CC Men-Short Program

CanadianSkaterGuy · Feb 8, 2013

82 points for two major errors? Not to mention his spins were a bit lacking compared to what he's capable of. I love Dai as much as the next person, but that's outrageous. Especially when Song landed everything. Hanyu's error was severe with the 3Z but lovely quad/3A saved his lead. Han should arguably be leading though.

Funny how this used to be called the "technical program". Not the case anymore. :rolleye:

Mao88 · Feb 8, 2013

MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) - 87.65 Short Program, 2nd Copy
2. Han YAN (CHN) - 85.08 Short Program, 2nd Copy
3. Richard DORNBUSH (USA) - 83.01 Short Program, 2nd Copy
4. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - 82.62 Short Program, 2nd Copy
5. Nan SONG (CHN) - 81.16 Short Program, 2nd Copy
6. Kevin REYNOLDS (CAN) - 78.34 Short Program, 2nd Copy
7. Denis TEN (KAZ) - 78.05 Short Program, 2nd Copy
8. Takahito MURA (JPN) - 78.03 Short Program, 2nd Copy
9. Ross MINER (USA) - 74.01 Short Program, 2nd Copy
10. Max AARON (USA) - 72.46 Short Program, 2nd Copy
11. Andrei ROGOZINE (CAN) - 70.58 Short Program
12. Misha GE (UZB) - 70.26 Short Program, 2nd Copy
13. Yi WANG (CHN) - 68.24 Short Program
14. Michael Christian MARTINEZ (PHI) - 64.62 Short Program
15. Abzal RAKIMGALIEV (KAZ) - 60.83 Short Program
16. Christopher CALUZA (PHI) - 58.53 Short Program
17. Jin Seo (KIM) - (KOR) - 58.04 Short Program
18. June Hyoung LEE (KOR) - 55.63 Short Program
19. Brendan KERRY (AUS) - 53.37 Short Program
20. Elladj BALDE (CAN) - 51.91 Short Program
21. Min-Seok KIM (KOR) - 51.43 Short Program
22. Jordan JU (TPE) - 42.78 Short Program
23. David KRANJEC (AUS) - 40.51 Short Program

hybfc · Feb 8, 2013

Yan is not bad spinner at all. He centered and kept speed very well. His posture needs a little polish. But it was not ok to call his spins bad. Besides, he did not get +2/3 for his spins.

You just personally thought judges were mesmerized by great jumps, which is not true. When song nan delivered great jumps last year, he only got around 32 pcs. That is an example that the judges were not mesmerized by great jumping ability. But I agree that the judges do care about skating skills. I think that is why takahashi has been gotten lower pcs than chan.

Art&Sport said:
No, I amended that. Han has good blade work and wonderful flow over the ice, but as someone already mentioned, he needs to work on his posture and presentation skills. Plus he also needs better choreographed programs (which I'm sure will come). Right now, though, his spins need work and he did not deserve the high CH and IN scores. Judges are overly mesmerized by great jumping ability when it's combined with a young face and groovy artistic potential (e.g., Han Yan and Hanyu).

Kind of interesting that Hanyu's greatest inspiration in the sport is Johnny Weir, and Han Yan's is Patrick Chan. Will the biggest star of the next generation be you, Han, or Hanyu? Probably both. But why must they be so heavily rewarded now when they still are yet lacking in artistic maturity? Certainly Max Aaron can't get away with lacking artistic maturity even though he too has fantastic jumping ability.

Oh well, I'll lead the cheering section for U.S. guys since they get scant most of the time: Go Ross, Go Richard, Go Max -- forget about the pressure and lay it down! Hit it out of the arena!

hybfc · Feb 8, 2013

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
82 points for two major errors? Not to mention his spins were a bit lacking compared to what he's capable of. I love Dai as much as the next person, but that's outrageous. Especially when Song landed everything. Hanyu's error was severe with the 3Z but lovely quad/3A saved his lead. Han should arguably be leading though.

Funny how this used to be called the "technical program". Not the case anymore.

I agree with you completely. But your standings were built on the principle that a fall is the worst mistake. Unfortunately, that is not true anymore. The worst is under-rotation under current rules.
Which ******* made the rule???

NMURA · Feb 8, 2013

The time has changed and new trends are set. These days, jumping abilities are more important than skating skills for the judges. In the past, quadless men were never treated as top skaters. Only since around 2008, something like a "skating is more important than quad" trend prevailed. Apparently it was organized by the Olympic host country in order to make their favorite an Olympic contender.

I think Hanyu is the new standard of men's skating. Consistent quads and 3A are prerequisite for top men. Things like skating, choreography and transition are considered only as differentiating factors among them. Fernandez is the new star of Europe. Song and Yan have benefited from this trend. Somewhat for Kevin Reynolds. The positions of Takahashi and Chan are declining in a relative sense. Mura is more favorable than Kozuka for the #3 spot.

I speculate the JSF has finally decided to "push" Hanyu as the #1 man. Fernandez is now a legitimate gold medal contender at worlds, and Chan has the home advantage. It may not be efficient to divide their resources between Hanyu and Takahashi. Hanyu was given higher PCS than Takahashi even with a mistake. Takahashi and Morozov have made a wrong decision. The new SP won't help boosting the PCS. Only consistent quads and 3A can save them. If both of them skate like at Japanese nationals, I think Hanyu wins with a bigger margin.

figuristka · Feb 8, 2013

Gosh results are different than i had expected. I did think it was hard for Dai to pull of a clean short when its the first time skating this new program. I was surprised his short was changed so late. I still would have had Yuzuru first but Han Yan my gosh what a jumper and his presentation is good for his age. What a talent. Also would have had Nan Song above Richard Dornbush. I was never one to enjoy watching the Chinese men but Nan Song i found put so much more into his presentation than i had seen before. I only saw Misha Ge once before at 4cc, can he do a clean 3 axel? Hope so as i love his energy he can skate with near the end of his program.

venlac · Feb 8, 2013

I think hanyu's sp is deserving the highest pcs.
During this season, his sp was tremendous.
by the way, i always curious about , the start of program he always make the sign of the cross (Catholic)
I heard he is not a Christian

hurrah · Feb 8, 2013

Hanyu was on! His quad and axel were to die for.
I'm so sad about Dai's performance. I hope he'll get his wind back for his LP.
And Han Yan is to die for. I think he's gonna be the World gold medalist soon. I just hope he has a good physiotherapist and personal trainer that will help him keep his body from breaking down any time soon.

lavender · Feb 8, 2013

I don't know but I liked Dai's program and all the nuances on different notes. Has a lot of potential. If they would just add a lil more choreo. I see why the score is still pretty good...he actually rotated all those jumps. That was actually one of the highest quads I've seen from him so he has improved the height because they use to be two footed most of the time.

zydeco88 · Feb 8, 2013

I would've never thought that Han Yan would do so well after a rather disastrous season for him. I've always adored his SS and amazing jumping ability (kinda reminds me of P.Chan). There's been no doubt in my mind that he could be a serious threat to Yuzuru in the future. Yuzuru, himself, realizes this and has long mentioned him (and Jason Brown) as potentially some of his future greatest rivals in his autobiography. The future of figure skating looks promising. As for Yuzuru, aside from the popped Lutz, I don't really like his flying sit spin near the end. His seated position in mid-air was just not really appealing. I thought he was a bit over-scored, but the same thing can be said about some other guys. So, I'm glad he came in first. And Martinez those are some mesmerizing Biellmann and I spins, if not the best in the men's field. Such a great flexibility.

silverlake22 · Feb 8, 2013

Jammers said:
The USFS selection system is not the problem when it comes to the men. Nobody is stepping up and showing they are competitive with the top men and except for Minor no one is consistent either. If we had someone who had the skills and wasn't a headcase and was consistent it would work its way out.

I think you've got it right.

Anyways, this is going to sound bonkers to some of you but IF Dornbush skates well in the FS here and IF Farris skates well and wins/medals at JW, I think they are, on paper, the best two guys to send to Sochi. The way I see it, they are both better presentation-wise than Aaron, a little more interesting than Ross, and have a better grip on the quad and 3a than Rippon, or honestly Abbott at this point, who has also been inconsistent for years and is fighting an uphill battle in terms of his age, while Dornbush and Farris are both young and have delivered in high-pressure situations before. If we get a 3rd spot Jeremy, Evan, Ross, and Max can fight over that. I still have faith in Ross I think he just needs to decide what kind of skater he is to be more successful...he could potentially go the athletic route and do more character-based or macho programs, or go a more artistic route and try to really channel some sensitivity, metro-man vibes that make the judges notice him. His skating style combined with the classical music and costume choices are sort of constraining him from developing a personality apart from "Steady Eddie" and maybe make him seem more bland/white bread than he actually is. Idk if anyone else agrees, but I feel like a distinct personality would do him some good. That being said, Dornbush and Farris are also sort of in-between on that spectrum too, but I feel they both at least have a little more of an individual identity on the ice, or in the case of Josh, the time to develop one.

Art&Sport · Feb 8, 2013

I have to say, for all the dissing of American skaters, their skating programs and American cultural references and music certainly inspire many skaters from other countries (can be seen through the years, and particularly with Min-Seok Kim's Pirates of the Caribbean; David Kranjec's Mission Impossible theme; Abzal Rakimgaliev's The Sting ragtime program; and Jordan Ju's Perry Mason theme complete with over-the-shoulder gun holster made fashionable by Jeremy Abbott in his Spy sp this season).

draqq · Feb 8, 2013

I dislike Dai's new short program. Daisuke is spectacular when he's projecting with outward energy and charisma, which is what the rock'n'roll medley did. This classical Moonlight Sonata piece is more of subtler, internal piece that doesn't suit his style. I expect long classic lines and profound silence in a piece like this. He's good but not great interpreting it.

Butterscotch17 · Feb 8, 2013

draqq said:
I dislike Dai's new short program. Daisuke is spectacular when he's projecting with outward energy and charisma, which is what the rock'n'roll medley did. This classical Moonlight Sonata piece is more of subtler, internal piece that doesn't suit his style. I expect long classic lines and profound silence in a piece like this. He's good but not great interpreting it.

I think part of it is because it is his first time skating it. If he had skated it more, he might be better at interpreting it. Not all masterpieces can be recognized as such at their first showing. Let's hope he can improve it by Worlds

Blades of Passion · Feb 9, 2013

Daisuke can skate to pretty much any style, that's part of why he's so special.

His classical, more internal Rachmaninov in 2006 was beautiful. I'm very happy that he's doing this Moonlight Sonata program...that Elvis Presley medley he had before was kinda trite.

cutesonic · Feb 9, 2013

Give Yan Han some time. Maybe in a year or two, he will be Yuzuru's rival for life. These two young men can make a great competition for each other and even the world

Ilvskating · Feb 9, 2013

Wow, Han Yan was just great!!! He has it all, the jumps, spins, skating skills and artistry! Very impressive. The young Chinese skaters are very artistic, not like the old generations.

Sorry to see Kevin Reynolds got two URs on the quad, I think the 4S looked just fine, and the 4T was slightly short. How much short you get < and how much you get <<?

Art&Sport · Feb 9, 2013

Ilvskating said:
Wow, Han Yan was just great!!! He has it all, the jumps, spins, skating skills and artistry! Very impressive. The young Chinese skaters are very artistic, not like the old generations.

Sorry to see Kevin Reynolds got two URs on the quad, I think the 4S looked just fine, and the 4T was slightly short. How much short you get < and how much you get <<?

Han Yan is a phenomenal skater, especially for being only 16. But please, Han's artistry and maturity are not all the way there yet. He is definitely an exciting jumper with effortless ability (his jumps are sublime to watch). However, the judges are over-rewarding him on CH and IN, perhaps because his other skills are so mesmerizing including blade work, smooth flow and ice coverage. He has average spins with good speed and centering, but his stretch and positions on spins could be improved. When he gets good choreography and improves in other areas, the sky's the limit.

Nan Song showed improvement in presentation, but he too lacks polish and maturity. His artistry is still a work in progress. I did enjoy the choreography Jeff Buttle created for Nan. In any case, Nan was clean, although a bit slow and telegraphing going into his jumps. It could be argued that Nan should be in front of Dai. However, I think Dai, Richard, Han and Hanyu have better overall presentation skills than Nan.

You mention Chinese skaters not having artistry in older generations. But there have been male skaters of Chinese descent who were very skilled all-around, including David Liu (of Taiwan) who was very artistically accomplished, and Chengjiang Li of China who was an excellent jumper, but also improved his artistry later in his career.

Ilvskating · Feb 9, 2013

Art&Sport said:
Han Yan is a phenomenal skater, especially for being only 16. But please, Han's artistry and maturity are not all the way there yet. He is definitely an exciting jumper with effortless ability (his jumps are sublime to watch). However, the judges are over-rewarding him on CH and IN, perhaps because his other skills are so mesmerizing including blade work, smooth flow and ice coverage. He has average spins with good speed and centering, but his stretch and positions on spins could be improved. When he gets good choreography and improves in other areas, the sky's the limit.

Nan Song showed improvement in presentation, but he too lacks polish and maturity. His artistry is still a work in progress. I did enjoy the choreography Jeff Buttle created for Nan. In any case, Nan was clean, although a bit slow and telegraphing going into his jumps. It could be argued that Nan should be in front of Dai. However, I think Dai, Richard, Han and Hanyu have better overall presentation skills than Nan.

You mention Chinese skaters not having artistry in older generations. But there have been male skaters of Chinese descent who were very skilled all-around, including David Liu (of Taiwan) who was very artistically accomplished, and Chengjiang Li of China who was an excellent jumper, but also improved his artistry later in his career.

yes, now I remember Changjiang Li did improve a great deal later in his career. Was it Chicago ? A program really surprised me.

yude · Feb 9, 2013

I like Daisuke's new SP better than his LP and the last SP. So beautiful program. I think he just needs time to grow the program and he knows it. I really want to see him skate this SP perfectly.

Not to mention Hanyu, I was impressed by Han Yan and Nan Song!! Future of men's figure skating is bright and exciting :laugh:

About Kevin, I am very looking forward to seeing his 3F-3Lo combo in LP (I just like it

).

2013 4CC Men-Short Program

CanadianSkaterGuy

Mao88

hybfc

hybfc

NMURA

figuristka

venlac

hurrah

lavender

zydeco88

silverlake22

Art&Sport

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom

Butterscotch17

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

cutesonic

Ilvskating

Art&Sport

Ilvskating

yude

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