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Thread: 2013 4CC Men-Short Program

  1. #166
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    Wow, Hanyu beat Takahashi in SS.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    Yuzuru and Dai were the class of the field.)))Yuzuru for gold in Sochi
    Phillipines skater surprised me!Martinez if I remember it right
    Yes Prince Hanyu for Sochi 2014 Gold
    Martinez maybe has potential for 2018 if he gets a quad that is.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Way high on component score for Yan. He's a great jumper but he doesn't have everything yet. Judges are blinded by the jumps, apparently.
    He was consistently awarded strong component scores on the junior circuit. Unlike, Chinese skaters historically, he has strong skating skills: incredible speed, ice coverage and strong edges. He floats across the ice. I think the component scores are appropriate for this performance.

  4. #169
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    Yan Han is an amazing talent. I think he deserves a better program.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Is there mandatory -3 deduction for Lutz?
    Wow at the score!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Yes, since it was a single. If he did at least a 2Lz-3T combo it would have been valid. And probably scored over 90
    You are right that singling a jump in the SP combination is penalized, However, the combination is still valid; it's not a Zayak violation. He did lose the BV of a single vs. a triple, and the mistake incurs a mandatory -3 GOE.

    I was very meh about most of the skating today. I actually think the top 3 SP skates at Euros were more exciting than the top 3 here, and Takahashi's new SP is underwhelming.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by hybfc View Post
    No point to argue with you. I was just amused by your freaking depth. That is all.
    I'm glad you're "amused."


    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Cat View Post
    Out of interest, who would you have in first place? Very few have been clean this competition.

    (Fingers crossed for Hanyu!)
    Hanyu! Despite his mistake, I'd say he deserves first place. But I think the scores are a bit inflated among the top four guys in view of the mistakes (and in view of Han Yan's relative immaturity, despite his fantastic jumping ability). Han Yan, IMO, was over-scored on PCS, especially SS, CH, and IN -- way over-scored. Han Yan does not have very good spins at the moment either, but he's the real deal as far as talent, and he will do extremely well in his career. It's just this tendency among ISU judges to push up guys who have great jumping ability and latent artistry but who are just not there yet artistically. Even Hanyu has precocious abilities technically, but he's still maturing artistically. The emphasis on quads has skewed the judging of this sport, IMHO.

    Judges ran out of room and judging ability, it looks like to me. Richard is fortunate to be in third place, since he had the slight hand down, but he was very good on everything else and his PCS is better than everyone he's in front of except Takahashi and Ten (on a good day). Apparently Dai did not have enough mileage on his new sp to pull out a better performance. I wouldn't bet against Dai doing a better job in the lp. Nan Song might have deserved to be a bit higher, but he still needs to improve his presentation skills as well. Seems like if you are a way out of sight jumper as Han Yan is, and you go clean, the judges overlook minor weak areas and go haywire with the scoring.

    Denis Ten is exquisite but very inconsistent technically. He's someone who's had the opportunity to go to Worlds year after year, and it's still taking him time to manage his nerves under pressure. Yet, the judges love him and will give him the marks. Reynolds has got the quads working for him (especially at his Nats), but he's still not the complete package.

    Ross is an all-around very pleasing skater to watch. He's got excellent technical skills, good spins, straight back and great posture and lines. His carriage is good too (altho' a bit stiff). He definitely can improve on presentation, but he's no slouch there either even tho' he's often harshly judged in that area. I don't think Song, Mura, Han or Reynolds are better than Ross in terms of PCS. Denis is definitely better than Ross artistically, but Denis' downfall is his technical inconsistencies because he has beautiful jumps if he can land them cleanly. This season, Ross' programs are great vehicles for him with wonderful choreography. Despite skating early, had Ross not popped his quad, he should IMO, be in front of Song, Reynolds, Ten and Mura.

    Max is new on the scene internationally, but he's also a great jumper. Neither Han, Mura, Reynolds, Ten or Song have got anything on Max in the jumping department, but Max needs to go clean, because it looks like he's gonna be a whipping boy re PCS. But, we shall see what happens in the long program.

    Lots of guys loaded for bear, and out to push each other and themselves.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 02-08-2013 at 08:29 AM.

  7. #172
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    The FS tomorrow should be great, less than a 10-pt spread between 1st and 8th. Maybe Han Yan doing so well is a sign from the skate gods that he should've been allowed to move up to seniors

  8. #173
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
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    WHY MOROZOV?!!!! *cries*

    Takahashi is unmatched in terms of using his whole body to express the music, soft cat-like movements, he can interpret music like no other.

    And he gets a new empty craptastic SP from Morozov where nothing really happens until the lovely circular step sequence towards the end...

    I can understand why it's been done. To not burden him with too much choreo and let him execute his elements cleanly. That is Morozov's trademark, after all. But it makes me weep. Takahashi deserves much much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Way high on component score for Yan. He's a great jumper but he doesn't have everything yet. Judges are blinded by the jumps, apparently.
    Had had one of the best basic skating abilities of the evening. Incredible speed, smooth and clean edges. Good posture and lines as well.

    And he's only 16! With some more polishing (better choreography, some more expression) he can become the most successful Chinese skater to date, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by snsd View Post
    Best Short Program "Performance" of the night goes to Michael Martinez of PHI in my opinion!
    He did incredibly well but his basics aren't great and he's quite introverted. Only 16 still so he can hopefully developed.

    I liked Christopher Caluza the most. Lovely basic skating, quite elegant and sold his complex choreography incredibly well.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by koheikun90 View Post
    He was consistently awarded strong component scores on the junior circuit. Unlike, Chinese skaters historically, he has strong skating skills: incredible speed, ice coverage and strong edges. He floats across the ice. I think the component scores are appropriate for this performance.
    Yes, I do concede Han's good on SS and he has enormous potential. He does float over the ice (Chan is his idol). But in this performance, Han was over-scored on CH and IN. Moment is right that Yan needs better choreography, and I'm sure he'll get what he needs. He also needs to improve his spins, footwork, and presentation.

  10. #175
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    Moonlight should have been saved for another year. It's too late in the year to be changing to another SP Even Dai's spins were lacking. In the last one, he travelled badly. He was gifted to be as high up as he is.

  11. #176
    One does not simply skate into Sochi MaiKatze's Avatar
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    ^No, I don't want Moonlight Sonata to be his SP next year. It is his last season and Olympics. I don't want it to be the SP next season, and I don't think it will be. It's true, they shouldn't have changed the program this late. But what's done now is done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I can understand why it's been done. To not burden him with too much choreo and let him execute his elements cleanly. That is Morozov's trademark, after all.
    If that was the intention then it clearly didn't work at all.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Yes, I do concede Han's good on SS and he has enormous potential. He does float over the ice (Chan is his idol). But in this performance, Han was over-scored on CH and IN.
    He was but the judges are unable to mark the different components independently from each other so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Moonlight should have been saved for another year. It's too late in the year to be changing to another SP Even Dai's spins were lacking. In the last one, he travelled badly. He was gifted to be as high up as he is.
    Yes, given what he's put out, he has his reputation to thank for getting a score as high as he did. Especially given the level of skating was extremely high.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaiKatze View Post
    If that was the intention then it clearly didn't work at all.
    I'm afraid Takahashi's body might be saying 'Enough'. :/

    I hope I'm wrong though.

  13. #178
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    IMO, han yan's goe was underscored
    4T +0.57
    3A +2.29
    3lz-3t +0.1

    yuzuru hanyu
    (missed at 3lz3t)
    4T +2
    3A +2.71

    Richard DORNBUSH
    (missed at 3a)
    4T +1.43
    3LZ3T +0.7
    Last edited by venlac; 02-08-2013 at 08:53 AM.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by venlac View Post
    IMO, han yan's goe was underscored
    3lz-3t +0.1
    4T +0.57
    3A +2.29

    yuzuru hanyu
    4T +2
    3A +2.71
    Hanyu's 4toe and 3axel were high, solid, with good speed out and they definitely deserved +2s. 3axel especially given it was from a very difficult entry with footwork leading directly into it. As for the 4toe, were the preceding steps ok? I'm gonna check.

    As for Han Yan, 3lutz/3toe did not have a lot of flow coming out so that GOE mark is ok, I think. 4toe was slightly over the toe on the landing (and again, steps?) so that GOE mark is ok too. 3axel was marked ok, definitely deserved +2 for the huge distance it covered and the solid landing with good speed out.

    If both Hanyu and Yan had steps preceding the 4toe, then I think all of those GOE marks are definitely acceptable.

  15. #180
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    Im another in support of Martinez!! That performance was my favourite of the event, a nice 3a and those spins were really something, that biellmann position was so extended! and he is actually from the phillipines!
    Dornbush was also great I love that program to with or without you and it was great to see it skated like that

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