2013 4CC's Ice Dance SD | Page 7 | Golden Skate

2013 4CC's Ice Dance SD

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
SHORT DANCE - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Tessa VIRTUE & Scott MOIR (CAN) - 75.12 Short Dance , 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
2. Meryl DAVIS & Charlie WHITE (USA) - 74.68 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
3. Madison CHOCK & Evan BATES (USA) - 65.44 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
4. Maia SHIBUTANI & Alex SHIBUTANI (USA) - 63.26 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
5. Piper GILLES & Paul POIRIER (CAN) - 60.20 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
6. Cathy REED & Chris REED (JPN) - 53.97 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
7. Nicole ORFORD & Thomas WILLIAMS (CAN) - 53.70 Short Dance
8. Danielle OBRIEN & Gregory MERRIMAN (AUS) - 48.81 Short Dance
9. Emi HIRAI & Marien DE LA ASUNCION (JPN) - 44.72 Short Dance
10. Anna NAGORNYUK & Viktor KOVALENKO (UZB) - 43.32 Short Dance
11. Xiaoyang YU & Chen WANG (CHN) - 43.17 Short Dance
12. Bryna OI & Taiyo MIZUTANI (JPN) - 33.90 Short Dance
13. Pilar MAEKAWA MORENO & Leonardo MAEKAWA MORENO (MEX) - 33.37 Short Dance

Complete Short Dance: Part 1, Part 2
 
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edge1

Spectator
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
yes, in a perfect world, judges would call it the way they see it. But remember, this is ice dancing, and there are many reasons judges score the way they do. Its hard to believe that judge saw them as the worst team in the event, while all the other saw them differently. So call me a skeptic, but it seems very weird to me.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
The question is, how bad did that judge think Piper Gilles was, and she was not having a great day, so there is no "they," wouldn't it be the worse of 2, or the mismatch. AFAIR, IJS sets the value to the worse of 2 skaters in a team. Dance particularly likes teams to have similar skills, and I thought Piper & Paul were looking particularly mismatched today.

However, that certainly wasn't the lowest PCS marks of the event. Oi& Mizutani, Moreno & Moreno, Hirai & De La Asuncion, all had marks in the 2's, 3's and 4's O'Brien & Merriman had marks in the 4's and 5's.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
I think that to date, G&P have been pretty fortunate that the judges have tended to mark up to Paul's standard , and have been particularly forgiving of Piper's , especially at home. Extra credit for potential , assuming Piper will catch Paul up. This is bound to lead to some disappointments along the way, unless and until that potential is realized.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
C/B had me glued to the screen. They had the most interesting choreography.. not quite the difficulty of the top two couples but I definitely enjoyed watching them the most. As for the Shibutani's, god they just seem to be getting worst and worst. They screwed up the twizzles. I could not sit through their program without mentally wandering off at times and when I was really paying attention I just kept thinking "what the hell is this".

I really with Hubbell would have knocked off the Shibutani's at Nationals. It's just so tedious to watch them snore and bore their way through competition after competition. And although they are young I would be willing to bet that they are on their way out and pretty much done as being a threat to anyone as competitors.

They have had their wig snatched by every Tom, Dick and Harry on the skating circuit this season, even losing to a junior team. That's just embarrassing for a World medalist team.

I find Chock/Bates and the Shibutanis about equally boring. I prefer Hubbell/Donahue or even Kriengkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt by far. Which junior team did the Shibs lose to?
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
:yay: Goooo Bryna & Taiyo! aaaand Emi & Marien!! :yay:

Odd anecdote from Bryna Oi's blog for IN:

"Clueless about the draw later in the day, we missed it. Turns out we get to skate first tomorrow; I guess that's what happens when we're not there to draw for ourselves!"

How is it possible that the Japanese federation failed to notify their skaters about the time of the draw -- at an event in Japan, no less?! :(

Meanwhile, note to DORIS [our omniscient/omnipresent leader for all things ice dance ;)]:
Best to your son. Read about his ACL injury in the Sochi thread.​
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
C/B had me glued to the screen. They had the most interesting choreography.. not quite the difficulty of the top two couples but I definitely enjoyed watching them the most. As for the Shibutani's, god they just seem to be getting worst and worst. They screwed up the twizzles. I could not sit through their program without mentally wandering off at times and when I was really paying attention I just kept thinking "what the hell is this".

I really wish Hubbell would have knocked off the Shibutani's at Nationals. It's just so tedious to watch them snore and bore their way through competition after competition. And although they are young I would be willing to bet that they are on their way out and pretty much done as being a threat to anyone as competitors.

They have had their wig snatched by every Tom, Dick and Harry on the skating circuit this season, even losing to a junior team. That's just embarrassing for a World medalist team.

Just noting: the Shibs were not 100 percent when they lost to Sinitsina/Zhiganshin; I think they would have caught up and pass them in the FD had Alex not injured himself. That was basically a meltdown for them and they only lost to S/Z in the FD by fewer than 2 points.

Everyone knows my view on the Shibs' future, so I'm not going to belabor it. I'm not really a betting woman, so I'll just let time speak for itself.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
In 2011, the Shibutanis won bronze at Worlds. They beat the then European Champions and 4th ranked at previous year's Worlds. They did so in their first senior season.

Just sayin'
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Just noting: the Shibs were not 100 percent when they lost to Sinitsina/Zhiganshin; I think they would have caught up and pass them in the FD had Alex not injured himself. That was basically a meltdown for them and they only lost to S/Z in the FD by fewer than 2 points.

Everyone knows my view on the Shibs' future, so I'm not going to belabor it. I'm not really a betting woman, so I'll just let time speak for itself.

I would not give the Shibs the excuse of not being 100 percent and losing to that team. If Alex was unhealthy he should have just pulled a "Tessa 4Continents 2011". At least they could have saved some face that way.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I would not give the Shibs the excuse of not being 100 percent and losing to that team. If Alex was unhealthy he should have just pulled a "Tessa 4Continents 2011". At least they could have saved some face that way.

Alex got injured DURING the FD, so... I guess they could have just W/D then, but I admire them for toughing it out. The audience was quite supportive when he decided to continue.

And I'm not making excuses just observations. And the Shibs never have made any either, FWIW.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
In 2011, the Shibutanis won bronze at Worlds. They beat the then European Champions and 4th ranked at previous year's Worlds. They did so in their first senior season.

Just sayin'

Nope that was a total fluke and that was the peak of their career. They never will rise up the ranks EVER AGAIN. THEY ARE DOOMED FOREVER. :sarcasm:

Figured I save everyone's time.
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I will say that I had higher hopes for this SD, though (we've discussed this already). It's interesting that Marina so nailed the SD for D/W and struggled to find the right fit for V/M and the Shibs, both who have conceptual short dances that might have been better suited to free dances. V/M made the right choice to simplify the emotional tenor (it was a mysterious, ethereal piece before) of the program and fit it more closely to the standard polka theme (it's very playful now); I don't think the Shibs really explored making a choice. But I love how expressive Maia is with her arms and body, and Alex is right up there with her. I really do hope they aren't dumped like everyone seems to want them to be, but the breadth of American ice dance right now is phenomenal.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I will say that I had higher hopes for this SD, though (we've discussed this already). It's interesting that Marina so nailed the SD for D/W and struggled to find the right fit for V/M and the Shibs, both who have conceptual short dances that might have been better suited to free dances. V/M made the right choice to simplify the emotional tenor (it was a mysterious, ethereal piece before) of the program and fit it more closely to the standard polka theme (it's very playful now); I don't think the Shibs really explored making a choice. But I love how expressive Maia is with her arms and body, and Alex is right up there with her. I really do hope they aren't dumped like everyone seems to want them to be, but the breadth of American ice dance right now is phenomenal.

Absolutely. Definitely the bright spot of U.S. Figure Skating.

I think the Shibutanis have not been 100 percent for quite a while, which has made it a challenge to get a lot of mileage out of these programs. If I was going to guess, I'd say they are at about 80 percent. I don't think it's because they don't want to train -- their work ethic is well-known -- but rather they have been able to unable to train the programs at the intensity that they would like.

To their credit they have not made any excuses. In fact, they didn't reveal Alex's injury at the end of the season until Champs Camp (and I feel it was a response to a question, not something they had disclosed voluntarily). I get the sense they're just doing the best they can through whatever struggles they are dealing with. I guess that's why I'm a fan, they seem willing to just work it out even if they're not always successful.

Of course Flattfan is right that sometimes you can work as hard as you can and you still won't get results, but I seriously hope that this is not a case of that, especially given their strong basics.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
I will say that I had higher hopes for this SD, though (we've discussed this already). It's interesting that Marina so nailed the SD for D/W and struggled to find the right fit for V/M and the Shibs, both who have conceptual short dances that might have been better suited to free dances. V/M made the right choice to simplify the emotional tenor (it was a mysterious, ethereal piece before) of the program and fit it more closely to the standard polka theme (it's very playful now); I don't think the Shibs really explored making a choice. But I love how expressive Maia is with her arms and body, and Alex is right up there with her. I really do hope they aren't dumped like everyone seems to want them to be, but the breadth of American ice dance right now is phenomenal.

I do not agree with the fact that the Shibutani's are dumped. Not at all. Those who say that think in the POV of the old system, pre-COP, when if a team awas passed, it was for good. That is not the case anymore.
The Shibs jumped litelly on the scene with some great programs and skills to boot.
Last year, their style didn't fit very well with the SD requirements (sorry, but they are not as great in latin as they were in classic ballroom and also marina picked a predictable music for their LP).
Also P/B made sure they do not make the same mistake twice, as they did in Moscow, where they actually facilitated the Shib's bronze.
And also is another thing happening, new teams with great potential like C/B and H/D, who's progress was faster in catching up with the Shibs, as it is normal for new teams.
Marina again this year, gave them an odd SD music, which I think does not do them any favor (if I would sit on the panel for example, i would definitely marke them down for the lack of originality). I am lately underwhelmed by Marina to be honest.
All the other teams which went by the Shibs made coaching changes. Perhaps that is what they need to do as well.
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Oh, I sorta agree. The fact is the Shibs slumped when several other teams experienced growth (W/P, I/K, C/L, arguably B/S)/
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Last year, their style didn't fit very well with the SD requirements (sorry, but they are not as great in latin as they were in classic ballroom).

They had the best SD program of the whole season at Nationals and 4CC last year (for me)! :popcorn:
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
In general, I feel like V/M should always win the SD. Music notwithstanding, V/M are the best when it comes to the compulsory dances and unless their program (or music) is a dud or there's a major mistake, it's safe to say V/M should always win the SD. But also in general, it's the other way around in the free dance and unless the program is a dud or there's a major mistake, it's safe to say D/W should always win the FD. So, after all that, if D/W can stay close to V/M after the short, they are in great position to run away with it overall in the FD. I'm looking forward to it!

:disagree: I'm glad that you are not a judge. Always? Always?
Why bother holding competitions if "it's safe to say" that the results are (or "should" be) preordained?

I do still miss having Emily around though.

I miss Samuelson too. :eek:hwell:

Thank you Mao88. Great skating from the top teams!

:agree: Many thanks to Mao88 for compiling so many video links throughout the season.

If Alex was unhealthy he should have just pulled a "Tessa 4Continents 2011".

Virtue withdrew from Four Continents 2011 because of an acute hamstring injury - unrelated to her recovery from surgery. Don't understand the apparent snarkiness from blackswan (unless I have misinterpreted him/her).
If Virtue had any early intention/expectation of withdrawing, why would V/M have bothered to travel halfway around the world to Taipei?
When Moir had a minor neck injury, V/M decided to withdraw from Finlandia 2012 before leaving home. Just sayin'.

I will say that I had higher hopes for this SD, though (we've discussed this already). It's interesting that Marina so nailed the SD for D/W and struggled to find the right fit for V/M and the Shibs, both who have conceptual short dances that might have been better suited to free dances. V/M made the right choice to simplify the emotional tenor (it was a mysterious, ethereal piece before) of the program and fit it more closely to the standard polka theme (it's very playful now); I don't think the Shibs really explored making a choice. But I love how expressive Maia is with her arms and body, and Alex is right up there with her. I really do hope they aren't dumped like everyone seems to want them to be, but the breadth of American ice dance right now is phenomenal.

Hoping for the best for the Shibutanis with their FD in Osaka - and with both programs in London.

Re V/M's SD, I believe that they have said that at first they wanted to use the Hopkins waltz for their FD (and to use Carmen for their SD). Ultimately they switched their music around because feedback from ISU judges indicated that the Carmen SD was not going over well.

Also: This season V/M turned to choreographer Jennifer Swan to play a major role in their FD starting from its very origination -- and in the evolution of their SD.
The Shibs have been known to bring in outside specialists to work on choreo on an ad hoc basis, but maybe ongoing strong input from a single trusted outside source would be better than putting all their eggs in Zoueva's basket, so to speak.
 
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