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Thread: 2013 4CC Ladies Short Program

  1. #271
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    OK... so there is some debate as to whether Mao got the axel all the way around...

    However, there can be no debate that she actually put the jump out there in a major competition, and in the SP at that.

    Good for her! I bet her confidence level in the jump has improved dramatically. Yeah... she probably didn't need it to secure her placement... but her chances of success when she DOES need it have just seen an uptick. I'm sure the rest of the world has taken notice.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    This is your opinion. The technical specialist and all of the judges who saw it live thought it was very well executed since they have her such good GOE.
    Yes, it is. But the slo mo does not lie. I am not saying she should not be in the lead and that it was not a good attempt, but it was UR'd. Mao has been generously scored this whole season, this is not any different, except that she actually skated very well and deserved the scores for the most part. Yes, in my opinion she did not deserve +GOE for the 3a.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaiKatze View Post
    Just watched the rerun on Eurosport 2. After nearly crying about the mess that was the Mens Competition this was a true joy to watch. The top three ladies made me so happy I'll just enjoy that and forget Men's even happened. Kanako was great, a beautiful program and so much expression! Akiko, wow, so good! Her programs are my favourites from the ladies this season, and I hope she has gained any confidence she might have lost in the last two months. I can hardly wait to see her O tomorrow. And finally Mao. What a performance. Honestly, even without that triple axel, tonight it felt like such a joy. When you watch her it just seems like she is not competing, but just having fun out there on the ice. She deserves everything she got tonight, imho. There is no discussion. I think she will slowly, but steadily will fight her way back to the top and to that Olympic Gold in Sochi.
    I agree. Nothing tentative in this program and the choreography is spectacular. And Mao has the best basic skating skills (stroking) of anyone who has ever skated. When a skater seems to be enjoying their program, the spectator (judges) cannot help but to also enjoy it. The only weakness with Mao is her spins, she loses a little focus I think where spinning is concerned. But she looks strong and healthy, and it would make me cry tears of joy if she did as well in the long program. As far as the triple axel, her take off was a bit wonky, the ones she was doing in practice were far better, and I think the practice triple axels were the ones that were judged. It happens.

  4. #274
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    Jesus Christ, those protocols make for a very depressing reading.

    Oh look, somebody landed a triple axel! Let's not care at all about how it was actually executed and shower it with +1s and +2s because it's a triple axel.

    etc. etc. etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Mao and Kanako's scores are inflated, considering their jumps that should have been downgraded. The technical specialist must be on the JSF's payroll.
    None of them were underrotated more than 1/4.

    Murakami's 3flip was close but I think it was a little less than 1/4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambivalent View Post
    While we're all scrutinising Mao's 3A, did anyone think her 3Lo was a bit under?
    All of her jumps were a little bit under.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Kanako's 3F was actually overrotated. She finished the rotation, then overrotated on the ice.
    It was clearly cheated. The slo-mo shows she completed a substantial part of the rotation on the ice. Not sure whether less or more than 1/4 but I thought it was a little less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    This is your opinion. The technical specialist and all of the judges who saw it live thought it was very well executed since they have her such good GOE.
    But it wasn't.

    The reason judges gave positive GOE was because:
    1) it's Mao Asada
    2) it was a triple axel

    It was slightly cheated and there wasn't a lot of speed or flaw out. Base GOE would have been appropriate here.

    Quote Originally Posted by katymay View Post
    And Mao has the best basic skating skills (stroking) of anyone who has ever skated.
    She doesn't. There are skaters with better kneebend, deeper edges, more speed and flow, etc.

    Kostner being the best example.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by tampro1 View Post
    Gao has really improved this year. She may be too stylish and subtle for our US judges. Gold is a good jumper who doesn't relate to her music. Her age has nothing to do with it. Michelle and Oksana had great musicality at 15. I guess the international judges don't appreciate stiff airplane arms and skating through music as much as US judges at Nationals. lol
    I agree. Gao has showned she is on the move. I thought she was underscored at Nationals. I think she needs a great spin coach. Maybe Lucinda Rue could help.

  6. #276
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    Well, apart from Asada leading by 50 pts it's actually quite close among the next 6-7. A bit surprised to see Gao score above 60...this might turn out to be a good learning experience for Gold as it looks like she at least held on in the SP and didn't fall apart like at nationals...and as for Zawadzki- I think it just confirms the scoring discrepancy I was talking about earlier. Still, sounds like considering what she did, 57 still seems a bit generous...

    Wonder if Gao or Gold can sneak into 3rd after the FS...

  7. #277
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    Osmond was hosed on the PCS because of that fall. Bad for her that she doesn't have a reputation yet.

    She had probably the best choreographed and presented program of the evening. Tons of upper body movement and transitions, great attack throughout.

    I find it impossible to find any flaws in her PCS other than her posture (which I didn't even notice because her program was so busy).

  8. #278
    Custom Title figuristka's Avatar
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    Anyone find Kaetlyn Osmond's short?

  9. #279
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    Mao and Akiko were thrilling. Gao a delicately beautiful program. The actions of EMI with Gold's vid is going to cause nothing but ill will.

  10. #280
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Ignore the trolls. I watched in slow-motion her 3A and it was less then 1/4 UR(barely) which means the skater is given the benefit of a doubt.
    This is what I think too. I've watched it several times in slow mo and the absolute worst yo can say about it is that is is borderline <. I personally do not think it is < or that anyone but the strictest tech caller would call it as such. It is most definitely not << as some here seem to be saying or implying.

  11. #281
    Custom Title mary01's Avatar
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    I'm sooo thrilled for Mao, and that 3A was absolutely breathtaking

  12. #282
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    Mao's triple axels have always been UR. She tends to hook the landing 80% of the time, but most times she takes off almost backwards by the time her skate leaves the ice. The whole rotation has to be counted.

    TBQH, 4CC cannot be taken nearly as seriously as Europeans and Worlds, I don't tend to watch or pay attention to it.

    The Zawadzki hate is getting a bit ridiculous. This is coming from the same posters who fervently defend other skaters when someone has something negative to say about them.

    If you want to see the issue many people have with Asada's Triple Axel, go back watch the first video and watch the close up replay of her take-off. She takes off going basically backwards which is over a quarter of a rotation past where practically any other skater takes off on this jump, so even if she URs by 35 degrees that's a ton of rotation she didn't do. That's why she's been *more* consistent with it without having to jump as high as skaters like Ito and Harding (or even some men). She's doing something less than a Triple Axel, and the less rotation simply doesn't require her to jump as high or powerfully as those other skaters. She does rotate in a nice position and her (admittedly ridiculously nice) upright air position allows her to hook and save landings that other skaters would fall on due to lean (she did lean a bit on this one, but it was an inside lean, which is easier to save).

    The Loop looked nice, save for being a bit back on the landing. Her flip take-off edge still fishes like Cohen's and really should get an edge call. Mao's issues with her jumps is her take-offs. Almost all of her take-offs are quite wonky and in need of work. She rotates nice and upright which is great, except when you get too comfortable hooking jump landings by doing that. That is not an aspect of jumping any coach would change (or think of changing), so the only way to truly fix her jumps would be to fix the take-offs and add a bit more speed to her skating, cause she's quite slow compared to Kim, Kostner or even the Russian girls/Gold/Osmond. That should also affect her SS score, cause her edge quality is often weak on these elements and the telegraphs are obvious, but we'll see how it goes come worlds.

    4CC often is quite dubious compared to Europeans and Worlds.
    Last edited by SkateNater; 02-09-2013 at 11:00 AM.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Osmond was hosed on the PCS because of that fall. Bad for her that she doesn't have a reputation yet.

    She had probably the best choreographed and presented program of the evening. Tons of upper body movement and transitions, great attack throughout.

    I find it impossible to find any flaws in her PCS other than her posture (which I didn't even notice because her program was so busy).
    I actually thought her PCS were pretty decent considering how early she skated. It's definitely a positive sign imo. It definitely would've been higher had she skated in the final group, probaby higher than Murakami at least (as it should be).

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Jesus Christ, those protocols make for a very depressing reading.
    But it wasn't.

    The reason judges gave positive GOE was because:
    1) it's Mao Asada
    2) it was a triple axel
    Do you know how many of Mao's 3A got UR, DG or negative GOE inside or outside Japan in all those years? More than a half of them. Your argument is invalid.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Do you know how many of Mao's 3A got UR, DG or negative GOE inside or outside Japan in all those years? More than a half of them. Your argument is invalid.
    I agree that 3a is not deserving '<' but, IMO it did not deserve +GOE 1.5
    I think her triple axel is much better than before. And she trying to triple axel is great! but, judge should give goe on jump's quality.
    Last edited by venlac; 02-09-2013 at 11:11 AM.

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