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Thread: 2013 4CC's Mens FS

  1. #196
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    Personally, I'm not a fan of Hanyu, at least yet..

    My reaction reminds me of how I felt watching a young Plushenko. Just couldn't warm up to him. That said, I changed my impression of Plushenko as the years passed, so maybe I will with Hanyu as well.

    But for now... I just don't think he's "all that and a bag of chips."

  2. #197
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    Thrilled for Kevin. Glad the judges can now see his improvements. To the poster that suggested a bunch of skaters were crying, they might be crying because they would give or would have given their right arm to be able to do a program with Kevin's technical content.

  3. #198
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    MEN'S FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

    1. Kevin REYNOLDS (CAN) - 250.55 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, Interview
    2. Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) - 246.38 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    3. Han YAN (CHN) - 235.22 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    4. Max AARON (USA) - 234.65 Free Skate
    5. Richard DORNBUSH (USA) - 234.04 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    6. Nan SONG (CHN) - 228.46 Free Skate
    7. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - 222.77 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    8. Takahito MURA (JPN) - 218.08 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    9. Ross MINER (USA) - 214.36 Free Skate
    10. Andrei ROGOZINE (CAN) - 201.99 Free Skate
    11. Misha GE (UZB) - 201.71 Free Skate
    12. Denis TEN (KAZ) - 197.26 Free Skate
    13. Yi WANG (CHN) - 195.01 Free Skate
    14. Christopher CALUZA (PHI) - 186.79 Free Skate
    15. Abzal RAKIMGALIEV (KAZ) - 185.81 Free Skate
    16. Michael Christian MARTINEZ (PHI) - 178.08 Free Skate
    17. June Hyoung LEE (KOR) - 176.39 Free Skate
    18. Elladj BALDE (CAN) - 176.33 Free Skate
    19. Jin Seo KIM (KOR) - 171.01 Free Skate
    20. Min-Seok KIM (KOR) - 137.63 Free Skate
    21. Brendan KERRY (AUS) - 134.26
    22. Jordan JU (TPE) - 121.11 Free Skate
    23. David KRANJEC (AUS) - 115.82 Free Skate

    Medal Ceremony (Part 1), Medal Ceremony (Part 2)
    Last edited by Mao88; 02-09-2013 at 01:16 PM.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Dear Ms. Hashimoto.

    As a boss of JSF you are a guilty party as well. Instead of giving two lead skaters compete in natural way, you organized the circus "Japanese Nationals" and the media hysteria that followed. The result of which was: you with Orser made a clown from the youngest guy by asking too much from him and you humiliated the older one by unfair judgement at JN. The consequences couldn't not show up. Enjoy, the lady. Could you please go away somewhere from your position until you make a worse damage to the skaters and this sport in Japan in general? Consider it as my request for a personal favour.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Because there were 10 lips and 3 flutzes? What is strange about it?
    Why should those two things be related? Those are two different jumps.
    It's a bit strange because a lutz is considered to be and in fact is a more difficult jump than a flip and there's a big difference in their BV so it would be normal to see more mistakes on lutzes than on flips while it's the other way round. I thought someone would give me a more reasonable answer. Seriously, there's no need to be mean.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by flaneur View Post
    Congratulations Kevin! you finally have your breakthrough!

    and honestly, his non-jumping skills have really improved within the past year... i mean he isn't anywhere near chan and takahashi but he is frankly pretty on par to a lot of the other top skaters including IMO hanyu (eek... don't kill me)
    Not just I won't kill you, rather shake your hands. i am put-off by the outpouring frustration I see here, regarding the PCS Reynolds got.
    Hanyu has been also gifted all season long for his performances in his LP as well. He is now trated by the international judges like Chan was the last 2 seasons, because of his outstanding SP, carrying way too high PCS scores into his LP results. And you have to keep in mind, that I was never a Reynolds fan.
    The outcome of this event is absolutely fair, as far as medals is concerned.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Daisuke changed new boots just a week ago. Because of this change he didn't have enough practice time I assume.
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...1-spnannex-spo He indeed looked tired and less motivated for all the event. Besides the new shoes, it's a general burden of Captain of Team Japan that no one bothered to take away from him after JN. Plus more than questionable results of JN could somehow damage his motivation and confidence.



    Dear Ms. Hashimoto.

    As a boss of JSF you are a guilty party as well. Instead of giving two lead skaters compete in natural way, you organized the circus "Japanese Nationals" and the media hysteria that followed. The result of which was: you with Orser made a clown from the youngest guy by asking too much from him and you humiliated the older one by unfair judgement at JN. The consequences couldn't not show up. Enjoy, the lady. Could you please go away somewhere from your position until you make a worse damage to the skaters and this sport in Japan in general? Consider it as my request for a personal favour.

  8. #203
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    I just checked in to say this:
    Many many congratulations to Kevin Reynolds! And to all the medalists!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaiKatze View Post
    Didn't Daisuke just change boots before Cup of China? How often does a skater change boots?
    As for Dai's, IIRC, his boots lasts only a month or two...

    ETA I. Am. Devastated...

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Was Hanyu ill?

    His FS performance seemed really sluggish and didn't have his usual fire.
    He has always stamina issues in his LP. Nothing unusual IMO

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Cat View Post
    Ok, I get that Aaron has the jumps and Ross really made some major jumping errors... But how did Aaron score higher SS than Ross?? this seems wrong :/

    The very fact that Aaron's PCS were so high is, to me...
    When you completely lost an edge and slip off on a jump, what does that say about your skating skills? Is Edge Quality, Balance, and Control not judged in Skating Skills?

    What rules are you people applying to these skaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by starryxskies View Post
    But the problem is that PCS shouldn't be so correlated to jumps. Why have a separate TES and PCS section when judges are just gonna clump it together? IN, CH, SS, TR...these things are present with or without the presence of jumps.
    Jump mistakes can affect PCS, especially when you have multiples. There's a reason why the trend in the Ladies field is to make your program easier and almost every skater who has done that has had huge increases in PCS over the years (Kostner, Asada, Wagner).

    Also, transitions/steps/choreography/etc. in and out of jumps counts for PCS as well. So, while a skater may have 5 quads in a program, the chance that he or she may enter and exit them as well (without pauses, and with steps and non-scored elements [like a walley, for example]) as a skater with triples is very low.

    I think many people are confused by why skaters who do flawless technical programs are awarded with higher PCS. This is why.

  11. #206
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    Not saying Kevin didn't deserve to win, but it's hard to get on the bandwagon. What he does best is jumping, but his jumps are not that spectacular, no big height or distance, sometimes even underrotated. And not let me get started on his skating skills. To be a worthy champion, you have to be a complete package, or at least do sth much better than all the others. Kevin got a bit lucky this time.

  12. #207
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    You have to be good to be lucky!

    Quote Originally Posted by apple123 View Post
    Not saying Kevin didn't deserve to win, but it's hard to get on the bandwagon. What he does best is jumping, but his jumps are not that spectacular, no big height or distance, sometimes even underrotated. And not let me get started on his skating skills. To be a worthy champion, you have to be a complete package, or at least do sth much better than all the others. Kevin got a bit lucky this time.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherryy View Post
    A strange thing: out of 13 edge calls, 10 were for the flip, only 3 for the lutz. Why is that? All the guys that received an "e" on the flip landed a 3Lz correctly.
    They're the same jump except the take-off edge, and most men are stronger than women so they don't tend to have issues with the lutz so much. Rolling the edge on the flip can prevent you from overrotating the flip as it blocks the take-off just a little. However, for women they typically can do flips more easily due to the take-off being less blocked than a lutz, and the fact that their legs aren't as strong. So, they may do good flip take-offs, but turn the lutz into a flip to make it easier.

    Most women don't jump like Ito, Slutskaya, Bonaly, or Kim. But lots of men can get that high so the harder jumps may be easy while the easier ones can sometimes be a bit too easy. Their bodies counter this by making the flip harder, while most women will counter that by making the lutz easier.

    It's a muscle memory issue, really. Sometimes you can consciously train to take off the wrong edge. Sometimes the body has to go back to square one and train the jumps up from the beginning to relearn the right take-off (I think that's what Joannie Rochette had to do, the latter).

    Another thing that has led to a lot of edge calls on both Lutz and Flip is the obsession with taking shorter take-offs into them out of steps. IRT the flip, a lot of people have too straight a take-off, so they can never really get on a secure inside edge and that straight line gives their edge a high probability of rolling over to an outside edge when they try to apply edge pressure to the skating foot.
    Last edited by SkateNater; 02-09-2013 at 11:30 AM.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by flaneur
    Congratulations, Kevin! You finally have your breakthrough! ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Oh wow, finally someone who sees what I see. Now we both will be killed.

    Ahhh, don't be so dramatic Skater Boy! The skating sure wasn't any f'ing exciting drama, that's for sure. Kudos to Kevin for pulling it off (in PC's absence no less -- wonder of wonders, or will wonders never cease). Canadians must be up North. If nothing else, Kevin has improved his concentration and determination. He must have seen Ross Miner win a bronze at NHK with a great quad in the fp there over Fernandez who tanked in his fp. Kevin realized, "Ya know, I got quads, I've just got to perfect them in competition, and I'll be a player." Well, Kevin was more than a player here. He won the whole dang competition. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Hanyu and Daisuke!

    But honestly, people, come on, while that was pretty, precise and conservatively clean skating from Kevin, it wasn't spectacular, IMHO. And to my eyes, Kevin was a bit sloppy re his skating skills in his over-used sp even with going clean and landing a quad. Gosh, jeez, what those extra revolutions can do for a fella's PCS, eh? It's gonna be a 3-quad showdown people with Kevin "Stick-It" Reynolds in this corner, and Javier "Porny" Fernandez in this corner. Both train in Oh, Canada with Canadian coaches too, so London, Ont., in March will be a blast! What a sport, err art?

    Good job for Max coming back, eh? Even though he was obviously tiring at the end of his fp, he eked out his final jumps. Max, Ross and Ricky absolutely deserved bonus points for even showing up just two weeks out from their Nationals showdown. It looks to me like Jeremy was quite wise to skip this 20-car mash-up. Seriously, though, it appears to me that Max was under-marked in the sp. I mean come on, he did land a clean quad there, and he rotated his 3-axel in the sp too, despite falling. Otherwise Max had a very good sp, certainly comparable to a lot of other guys placed in front of him. And, I mean if he's gonna get those high PCS for his fp, why didn't he get them for his sp? There sure wasn't a whole lot of difference between his programs. He just lost concentration on one jump in the sp. USFS must have sent a memo to ISU at 4CC, "Aaron is our go-to-guy, you guys, at least for the moment."

    The judges love Denis Ten, but when is the last time that Denis has been technically consistent? Denis even made some minor technical mistakes in his sp, which to me means that Denis' sp marks were too high in comparison to those of Ross and Max. I would say that Ross' failure to land those extra revolution quads in both programs here did him in, and he got no credit in the short program for what he did well in comparison to those placed in front of him. Well, I suppose at least Ross was consistent in placing 9th in both programs.

    Clearly, it's all about the quads, and as far as artistry, the judges are completely confused and all over the place with the scoring in that disrespect. Obviously, the judges couldn't gift Dai twice. And golden prince, Hanyu, needs not to rest on his laurels. Han Yan is just "freakin'" lucky to be on the podium. Yeah, I said "freakin'", hybc, and all you Han fans out there.

    Guess Joubert is at home flexing his abs and thinking, "Let me be physically fit, God, please! Maybe I can win another Worlds! Yes!" And Amodio is smirking and strutting, "Okay, I got Worlds in the bag. Well, if that Lothario from Spain trips up in the fp the way he did at NHK, then surely I can slip past a declining Dai, a 3-fall artistiquely PC, and a not so at the top of his game, Hanyu. And, Kevin Reynolds? Who's Kevin Reynolds?" Hey, but probably fat chance for the snarly, pouty, yet PCS-grabbing Frenchman. Likely the standings at Worlds will re-conform themselves to the existing pecking order, maybe perhaps except for Dai, who this season appears to be done in by creeping old age and that Nicky fella. Uh, yep, the indubitably smarmy Lothario who is also behind Amodio's fall from graceful, unique and genuine figure skating without all the questionable mugging and pandering to the judges.

    Yes, people, it has come to this. A contest for which poster posts the most scintillatingly funny commentary re craptastically boring ISU competitions. Enduring this (and even trying to find a way to watch) has been like suffering through an endless ISU required, musically and choreographically meaningless, as well as butt ugly spin being slowly cranked out at the end of a shaky program. My eyes are practically bleeding after watching some of those programs. Or, maybe it's just the lack of sleep, and I dreamed it all. Yes, blame me folks for the nightmare. Anyways, after picking my jaw up off the floor ... I'm outta here (at least for the moment).
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 02-09-2013 at 11:41 AM.

  15. #210
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    So WHAT HAPPENED? Kevin Reynolds won? Daisuke is way out of the medal stand? Max Aaron got 2nd in the FS? Boy I guess I will comment after I watch the videos.

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