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Thread: 2013 4CC's Mens FS

  1. #301
    One does not simply skate into Sochi MaiKatze's Avatar
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    Like I said, I really like them. They are very positive, but often too excited. "Mind-blowing stuff", "An absolute cracker" "The skate of a life-time" etc. You hear these lines in every competition. They describe programs with superlatives a bit too often. What I like about them is that they don't play favourites, at least not as obviously as, for example, their german counterparts on German Eurosport. I prefer these ecstatic comments, to putting down skaters you just personally don't like.
    Last edited by MaiKatze; 02-10-2013 at 08:06 AM.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaiKatze View Post
    Like I said, I really like them. They are very positive, but often too excited. "Mind-blowing stuff", "An absolute cracker" "The skate of a life-time" etc. You hear these lines in every competition. They describe programs with superlatives a bit too often. What I like about them is that they don't play favourites, at least not as obviously as, for example, their german counterparts on German Eurosport. I prefer these ecstatic comments, to putting down skaters you just personally don't like.
    In their defense there are only so many lines in the English language to express 'Great!'

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitterpatter View Post
    In their defense there are only so many lines in the English language to express 'Great!'
    http://eiskunstlauf.bev-eissport.de/..._FS_Scores.pdf
    ^^Oda landed 2 quads and scored 178 on the free today in Germany.

    very frustrating that he won;t be at worlds.

  4. #304
    One does not simply skate into Sochi MaiKatze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitterpatter View Post
    In their defense there are only so many lines in the English language to express 'Great!'
    They are really optimistic and always focus on the positive of a performance. They sometimes critizise the judges but not so much the skater.

    @jamie
    I think, no matter how unfair this seems right now, that the days of Nobunari Oda are over. In any other country they would probably kiss his very feet, but in Japan his time is up. Imho, we will never see him at Worlds or the Olympics again. This is sad for a skater of his caliber, you're right.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaiKatze View Post
    @jamie
    I think, no matter how unfair this seems right now, that the days of Nobunari Oda are over. In any other country they would probably kiss his very feet, but in Japan his time is up. Imho, we will never see him at Worlds or the Olympics again. This is sad for a skater of his caliber, you're right.
    Completely agree, Kirsten. The multiple Zayak violations have marked him a headcase and the fed have given up on him. It is a shame, and his still so young. I wonder if Hanyu wins Sochi (and thus retires along with Takahashi) if they'll see fit to give him one more shot?! But it does seem unlikely, still I do feel like your past exploits should not condemn you to the bargain basement. He DID manage a Junior world title, a 4CC gold and 4th in the worlds, so not THAT shabby

    Having said that, Kozuka is a world junior champ and world senior silver medalist - he's not going either :/

  6. #306
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    Wow, I didn't think it was possible to top the wild, unexpected results of the Grand Prix Final but I stand corrected. What a crazy free skate. Congratulations to all the medalists! Men's Worlds looks like it is becoming more and more interesting. Can't wait!

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    Love listening to the EuroSports commentators over my U.S.
    Yes, especially when they say things like "that was a cracking triple lutz" lol
    Last edited by Icey; 02-10-2013 at 06:20 PM.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    They're showing a couple of men again on British Eurosport and the announcer just said Kevin Reynolds is a contender for the GOLD medal at worlds. A medal, maybe, but the GOLD? That's a stretch, and I like the guy..
    If he performs like this, then maybe he is. That's one of the highest scores this season, and his short could have hit low-mid-80's if not for the errors. Let's keep in mind he beat who many consider to be the gold medal favourite.

    Good for Reynolds! I didn't expect that result, but great to see the system rewarding technical content. I don't care how great an artist people say Dai is, with his two programs here, he did not deserve to make the podium. Like I said, it's a sport, and if you don't bring the jumps you shouldn't be winning anything. Also, Reynolds' artistry has improved. He's not as good as Fernandez, but I think his spins are better and they have similar jump content. He's certainly been consistent in his last two competitions. It's good to know that if he brings on the technical content, he'll get credit for it.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    He got a deduction from the British judge because of his "undergarments". lmao

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    Now that everyone has belly-ached about the results. I want to take a minute to congratulate Kevin. He deserved this win. Lets get over the fact that the favorites did not skate well and move on.

    BEST OF LUCK TO ALL THE SKATERS AT WORLDS......

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaiKatze View Post
    They are really optimistic and always focus on the positive of a performance. They sometimes critizise the judges but not so much the skater.

    @jamie
    I think, no matter how unfair this seems right now, that the days of Nobunari Oda are over. In any other country they would probably kiss his very feet, but in Japan his time is up. Imho, we will never see him at Worlds or the Olympics again. This is sad for a skater of his caliber, you're right.
    Yep, sadly him and Fumie are probably over for japan.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterB View Post
    Now that everyone has belly-ached about the results. I want to take a minute to congratulate Kevin. He deserved this win. Lets get over the fact that the favorites did not skate well and move on.

    BEST OF LUCK TO ALL THE SKATERS AT WORLDS......
    ^^
    I think a good number of posters have been congratulating and praising Kevin throughout this and other threads for what he accomplished at 4CC, so you're not unique in that respect.

    Personally, I don't have an issue with the so-called "favorites" not skating well. It's too bad for them, and they'll probably do better next time, or not. As I said earlier, Kevin deserved his win for being the most consistent along with landing a lot of quads. But that doesn't negate the fact that the scores were humongous on tech and PCS for Kevin, particularly in his lp, as well as scores generally being inconsistent in sp vs lp for many of the competitors. If simply landing quads is the standard that can grab those kind of tech and PCS scores when there's other areas of a competitor's skating that still need work, then this sport will continue to stagnate.

    I'm equally critical when the so-called "top" skaters get humongous scores when they skate a clean program with quads. They deserve a lot of credit, but the scores are simply being thrown out piecemeal, and end up being all over the place. Patrick Chan has in the past achieved similarly overly high scores when his programs have been loaded with errors. And, e.g., earlier in the season when Hanyu was breaking records with his clean and well skated sp, I thought it was ridiculous for his scores to be that high. He skated well, but he's still a maturing skater and IMO, he did not deserve such high tech and PCS scores simply because he has gorgeous quads when he's on and budding artistry.

    The runaway scores for mistake-laden programs from top skaters, as well as for skaters who can land quads but need to work on maturing and becoming more well-rounded are perfect examples of the fact that the sport has no measurable standard by which to judge what skaters do on the ice. The rules change every season and the scores fluctuate from competition to competition, and even from short program to long program at the same event. The craziness of the scores sends confusing messages to the skaters and to the fans. But I guess the clearest message for the men is, "Land those quads fellows, the more the merrier the judges will be, and therefore you will be, whether or not your overall skating is all that great."

    Wonder whether or not there will be a significant "course correction" at Worlds. Certainly with a larger field of "top skaters," the judges will have their work cut out for them. It would be so wonderful to see all the skaters skating their absolute best and landing quads right and left. In that scenario and at the rate the judges have been scoring, they're gonna run out of numbers and have to start slashing guys on PCS even more than usual. That would only serve to hurt less established skaters even should they skate well (especially if everyone else skates well too). I guess it's more likely that at every event some competitors will falter, particularly when the quad stakes are so high.

    If nothing else, Kevin Reynolds has certainly set himself apart from the middle tier guys by landing three quads in his lp. He needs to keep working on other aspects of his skating, but the question is, "Where's the incentive for working on becoming a more complete skater when you can CoP those kinda quad/quad/quad scores?" The judges apparently, seemingly are telling Kevin that he has arrived. For Max, maybe the judges are saying, "You need to get a good later draw to skate, and maybe you'll be consistently rewarded on your tech scores and your PCS scores might average out, especially if you add a third quad to your lp. Most of all, don't fall, even though falling with completed revolutions isn't supposed to be that big a deal under the rules, you don't have any margin for error." Apparently, Dai and Hanyu do have more margin for error, and Hanyu was on the podium mainly because he's a known quad quantity who is the current boy prince of figure skating. Although Kevin may have been the newly crowned quad king at 4CC, he'll likely have to share that moniker at Worlds with Fernandez (and there's sure to be plenty of guys landing or attempting one or two quads in their lp.


    I agree that the British Eurosport commentators are great at color commentary and knowledgeable aesthetic analysis. They also know better than some other commentators when to quiet down a bit and just watch the skating. Still, they should strive for accuracy even on statistical and fluff matters, otherwise they are not really doing their job.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 02-11-2013 at 12:50 PM.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Yep, sadly him and Fumie are probably over for japan.
    Hasn't Fumie been "over" in the eyes of Japanese fed for quite some time now. I know she's been still trying fruitlessly. Maybe like Midori, Fumie should try competing as an adult skater or join a synchro team, especially since she seems to love skating so much. And, I can't imagine why Fumie wouldn't be welcome at many of the shows taking place in Asia.

    As far as Oda, and also Kozuka, they are still both relatively young and I feel that both of them are competitive with Mura. I doubt Hanyu will be retiring after Sochi (unless he wins gold, and/or experiences physical health problems). But Dai surely will decide to rest his weary body, which means Oda and Kozuka still have opportunities to try and make their National team.

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    Fumie is still skating because she wants to skate. Obviously she's not making the national team any time soon (or likely ever) but she's remaining a competitor and we have to respect her for that. Just like you can't hold it against 20th ranked skaters in the world for being unable to win but still wanting to compete, you can't hold it against her. She is one of Japan's most decorated figure skaters, and has nothing to prove, and she should finish her amateur career on her own terms. And she's 32! That's so commendable and brave of a female skater to still be in competitive shape at that age.

    As for Oda, that recent competition in Bavaria shows that he can still rack up huge scores and skate clean. Plus I can't recall the last time (or if ever!) he landed two quads in an LP. I don't think he's going anywhere and will be a threat for the 3rd spot at Japanese nationals. He's still hungry to get to Worlds and the Olympics, and IMO is still capable of it.
    Last edited by CanadianSkaterGuy; 02-11-2013 at 01:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Can't please everyone including myself. Poor judges. If they reward clean hard great jumps over PCs, some complain. If they reward PCs over unclean jumps or falls, some complain. I feel for the judges.
    I don't see why people are complaining. I know there are diehard Yuzu fans (myself included) but he was undeniably outjumped by Reynolds and made two major mistakes. Had Yuzu done the lutz, he would have won. Had he done the lutz in the SP, he would have won. Reynold's PCS in the FS was less than Yuzuru's, but for people to suggest that the judges should have spared Yuzuru's win by inflating his PCS or holding down Reynolds' PCS are just being sore losers. He skated clean with 3 quads, which to me, merits good PCS marks. Also, Kevin's skating is much improved... it's not like he's a Goebel or Stojko who is all jumps but lacking in artistry.

    I think the worst complaints are those who are mad that Daisuke was scored "so low". He's a lovely skater to watch and one of my favourites artistically -- and I'm really hoping he recovers by Worlds after this disastrous competition -- but I thought he should have been scored even lower. He landed just 3 clean triples (and his spins were lacking). He placed higher than skaters like Mura who did a quad and 6 decent triples! (Even Misha Ge landed 7 triples, and I thought he should have been placed ahead of Daisuke. Certainly not the better skater, but he landed 4 more clean triples than him.) Between the SP after 2 major errors and the FS after 5 errors, I would have had Daisuke 9th or 10th and not 7th. It's outrageous that in the FS he was given the highest PCS scores when he had the 18th best TES scores -- heck, even Asada/Suzuki had higher TES scores in their FS.

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