02-11-2013, 05:50 PM
At the 1999 Skate America in Colorado Springs on October 31, 1999, Timothy Goebel became the first skater to land three quadruple jumps in one program. Look how many years it has taken for anyone to match that. I believe Goebel's was two salchows and a toe. Someone posted earlier that Joubert had achieved that too.
Last edited by Icey; 02-11-2013 at 06:17 PM.
02-11-2013, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by lavender
Originally Posted by TontoK
TontoK, I agree that lavender could have been more specific re what she means by "prevent what happened," because honestly I don't think anyone has said they think Kevin Reynolds didn't deserve to win. Clearly he was the most consistent and he delivered the quads, which is definitely huge. Contrary to your assessment, Kevin did not come out of nowhere. He's been around for awhile now. Plus, he did a great job at Canadian Nationals, so many were eager to see if he could do as consistently well at 4CC. But yes, this is the first time that he performed so well in both programs internationally against heavily favored top medal winners.
And, the "chosen one" for the prior two seasons has been Kevin's compatriot, Patrick Chan. This season it has been Yuzuru Hanyu. Dai has definitely been in the running and is a strong veteran who won Worlds in 2010, but Dai has not really in my estimation been considered "a chosen one." If that was the case, the judges wouldn't have dissed him at Nice Worlds in 2012.
Betting sheets don't matter, but better and more consistent judging is what matters. In view of the problems a lot of the men skaters had at 4CC, I don't think better judging would or should have changed the top result, i.e., Kevin winning. He deserved to win among this field based on the performances. But better judging should definitely have changed the way TES and PCS scores were delivered and might have affected the overall placements (aside from Kevin) in both the sp and the lp, as well as kept the scoring levels comparatively reasonable. Without a clear measurable standard, it's impossible to achieve good consistent judging across the board at every event. So the debates will continue.
02-11-2013, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by Icey
So what? The better questions are why, does it matter, and if so how does that impact the sport as a sport, and where does the balance between art and sport factor in? Also, what about the equipment, physical training strategies and conditioning of athletes? In any case, Fernandez already accomplished 3 quads in a program earlier this season and again at Europeans, and Joubert has definitely achieved the feat more than once. Kevin doing it successfully at his Nationals and at 4CC is a personal accomplishment and noteworthy for which he was handsomely rewarded, but IMO, it's not an historic accomplishment. It's something to cheer and to congratulate, but also to keep within perspective.
The sport itself is out of balance and no one is making a concerted effort to find the delicate balance between reasonable evolutionary athleticism and superlative artistry. The over-focus on quads and 3 quads in a program is causing further imbalance. Perhaps the most significant question is how many quads are enough? This sport can not be measured in the same way that other sports are measured. Athletic feats in other sports are conducted under very different conditions and performed in relatively short spurts or time periods that are within reason for continuing to maximize athletic difficulty.
IMO, it will be impossible to continue adding revolutions to jumps in figure skating beyond four or trying to perform more than three quads in a lp, unless other elements within a program are significantly reduced and the required length of programs is also reduced. Already musicality and artistry have been adversely affected by the overemphasis on quad jumps and tacking on of point-grabbing moves that don't make sense to the whole of a well-constructed program. In addition, the fact that figures are not required for all skaters to practice has actually harmed the technical consistency and precision of not only skating skills, but jumps too. In fact, the lack of significant and constructive practice of figures basics is likely a reason why it's hard to push for those extra revolutions, because many skaters are not sound enough in their technique to even properly perform triples. Put that in your pipe and smoke it ISU!
Whither thou goest, figure skating ...?
IMO, figure skating should concentrate on improving the technical expertise, endurance, conditioning and artistic performance quality of its athletes, instead of over-focusing on jump revolutions to the detriment of everything else. And as already pointed out ad infinitum: The ISU needs to responsibly, thoughtfully and with exhaustive determination and expert input, repair and reform the judging system for the long term benefit of the skaters and credibility of the sport, not for the short-sighted protection of judges and necessary but ultimately useless attempt to save figure skating's image. True respect is achieved through substantive, beneficial change and matters more than a masked-over image.
Last edited by Art&Sport; 02-11-2013 at 07:20 PM.
02-11-2013, 07:36 PM