Excuse me Jaylee, I thought we were discussing the issue of the 3A - not what was holding Mao back. Notice that I used "any lady who has a 3A" because I'm actually talking about any lady with a 3A. For example, if Suzuki had a 3A, I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to showcase that in the SP. And the rule allows that - which I'm saying is fair. If Mao didn't have the 3A, then she'll just need to work harder and get it. Result?! The sport WILL be moving forward. This is what has happened with the Mens and the quad. These guys are fighting to land the next quad flip, etc. If the SP was called technical program to show your technical abilities, how does the ability to do the 3A not fit into this category?
I don't think I misunderstood you. You stated that you didn't "see why any lady with a 3A should be be held back just because their peers can't do what they can do." My point was that Mao--a lady with a 3A--was not being held back by the rules, just her own limitations with jumps other than the 3A, and she had to rely heavily--too much--on the 3A for success. She started attempting a 3A combo in the SP _after_ she had troubles with the 3/3 in the SP. The rule regarding the 2A in the SP was never an issue until Mao began attempting a 3A combo in the SP in the 2009-2010 season. Then ALL OF A SUDDEN, the rule needed to change. Well, I don't think that was right.
The sport was moving forward just fine with the 2A/3A option in the free program. The short program is not about showcasing whatever stuff a skater is capable of, as long as it's difficult--in that case, let's just have the jumping passes allow for a solo 3A, 3A combo, and another 3A out of steps. That would be more difficult than what the current ladies are doing--why not allow them to do whatever they want without any restrictions at all in the SP? What is the point of required elements then?
Sorry to say it like that, but pretty much everything you wrote is cringe-worthy.
Skaters have different strengths, some are better with 3-3's, some with other jumps. For example the 3A. Why does it make sense to you that skaters with a 3-3-should have a general advantage in the SP and the LP, but a 3A - being an extremly tough element, seldomly landed by a female - should not be allowed to give someone an advantage over other women woithout a 3A in the SP and LP? Saying someone has to do a 2A while she's capable of the harder element is just that: holding her back.
There is a huge difference between the rule allowing the ladies to do a 3/3 in the SP versus the rule allowing the ladies to do a 3A in the SP. When the ISU allowed the ladies to do a 3/3 in the SP (or, allowing them to do the triple out of footwork some years earlier), there were numerous ladies who had proven themselves capable of doing so. When was it, 1996-1997? It was during that quad. Ladies had already been doing 3/3s in the FS at that point since the 1980s.
The rules allowing the ladies to do a 3/3 in the SP were never passed to give one skater an advantage over the rest of the field, because it was proven that quite a few ladies could do a 3/3 already. But you can't say the same regarding the rule regarding the 3A. Fact: only one lady was capable of landing a 3A at the time that the rule was passed allowing her to attempt it in the SP. Fact: the ISU did not allow the men to attempt solo quads or solo 3As in the SP until multiple men were successfully doing them already; same is true regarding ladies and the 3/3 in the SP. If the truth makes you cringe, so be it. Facts are facts.
So it took the ISU way too long to allow men to do quads as the solo jump in the SP. That was a mistake and they should have changed it earlier. But because of that they need to be unfair towards the ladies now too?
The situations are not comparable at all. It would not have been unfair to the ladies at all if they had not passed that rule, since unlike the men and quads they hadn't proven that multiple ladies skaters could land a 3A. This rule was passed in the summer of 2010, and it hasn't benefited anyone but Mao Asada--thereby proving my point that this rule gives only her an advantage and was done solely for her benefit.
You're saying it like: the SP needs to reward skaters who have that exact set of skills (3-3, clean lutz). Other sets of skills (3A f.e.), should not be rewarded.
So Mao is the only woman in the world now who can (at least with a certain success rate) land a 3A? How unfair towards all other woman not capable of a 3A that she's allowed to jump it in the SP!
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. A 3/3 and a lutz are not the only elements that need to be rewarded, but enough ladies can do them that allowing the ladies to attempt a triple/triple in the SP doesn't give any one a serious advantage over the others on paper--which should make for a good competition in the SP. The minimum requirements in the SP at the senior level shouldn't be too low or so easy that it's not distinguishable from the junior level, but you don't want the maximum allowed elements in the SP to be so high and unique that only one or two skaters can take advantage and benefit. At least, that was how the ISU has otherwise acted in the history of required elements for the SP.
The rules allowing for a 3/3 and a triple out of footwork in the SP weren't passed to reward any specific skater, and the higher base value for a clean lutz also wasn't made to benefit any specific skater. That's the way it should be. Look at the rule for bonuses in the back-half of the SP--Hanyu is the one skater who took the maximum advantage of it, and used it to shatter the world record this season. However, no one could argue that this rule was created to benefit just Hanyu. That rule was fairly made because too many skaters were frontloading their SP even while they were capable of moving jumps to the back half of the SP.
I am not arguing that the 3A shouldn't be rewarded, but rather that the rule allowing for it in the SP shouldn't have been implemented because it was only done for one skater.
Mao is a great all-around skater and her 3A is not her only strength. But to answer the question of this thread, there's no need to keep increasing the value of the 3A to increase the advantage of a ladies skater who can do a 3A over the rest of the ladies field--there are enough advantages to that jump already.
It's only fair to have the rules favor Mao this time around, considering how ridiculously in favor of Yuna they were 3 years ago, when doing 3 double axels could potentially net you 6.5 points EACH and if you underrotated a 3A by 91 degrees you'd get credit for a bad double axel.
The rules 3 years ago were not made with either Mao or Yu-Na in mind. Allowing 3 2As in the FS was not a rule change intended to favor Yu-Na. That's a big difference. The DG rules were too harsh but it wasn't done to punish Mao or advantage Yu-Na; no one in 2006 was predicting it to be an issue for Mao because at the time she wasn't struggling with downgrades.