If some are insistent on higher 3A bv, I suggest let's agree on this:
- Keep the current 3A value or a little higher depending
- Raise the 3-3 and/or other combination values
- Raise the 3Lz value
- LOWER 3L value; not too far from 3F, though
It's a summary of opinions from this thread. If "fairness" is what you are looking for, I believe all these conditions must go together.
There's no shame in hoping that a certain change in regulations would benefit the favourite star; that's what fans do. The sad thing is that, if GOEs were given right, Mao would not benefit much from 3A. Now the question has gone from whether she'e gonna succeed or not to whether she would miraculously... attempt it. Even in her good senior years, it was never about a BEAUTIFUL/GOOD 3A, but landing it or not - or ur or not, rubbing it or not. 3A pretty much ruined all of her jumping skills, at least from what her potentials allowed. I sometimes wish someone could've directed her junior years otherwise so that she could focus on having quality jumps. She was gifted with a one in a million hardware (similar to Yuna), plus an environment and support unheard of; she would've been an upgrade version of Ando Miki, instead of trying to mimic Midori Ito. (BTW, Ando never gave up on good jumps, and didn't hang on to her quad - remember she took an entire season fixing her edges? But I digress.) Anyways, it's a past. Whenever I get depressed from this, I watch her Jupiter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsf31viaYlo
Last edited by bebevia; 02-10-2013 at 04:41 AM. Reason: not Pluto
If 3a's base score go be raise.
What about this ?
all jump, three multiplied.
1a=1.1 2a=3.3 3a=8.5
→1a=1.1 2a=3.3 3a=9.9
1lz=0.6 2lz=2.1 3lz=6.0 4lz=13.6
→ 1lz=0.6 2lz=2.1 3lz= 6.3 4lz=18.9
1f=0.5 2f=1.8 3f=5.3 4f=12.3
→1f=0.5 2f=1.8 3f=5.4 4f=16.2
Greetings!don't you think? haha
Or earlier mao88 say as the triple axel should be higher than 3lz3t=10.10
3a only four multiplied, 12 points, is it enough?
Or in 70% rule, only 3a have 100% rule, not minus when she underrated. isn't it fair?
Last edited by venlac; 02-10-2013 at 06:00 AM.
it's right that this rule for mao. I saw an japan article the 70% rule, and rule for triple axel that JSF suggestion and moved. An article titled 'Mao will have advantage in this rule "
And too late? the base point of the triple axel continuely be raise, And yuna and mao have one more Olympics.
do you have ever seen the article K. Federation has suggestion rules to ISU , or protest?she does not have the power.
factor of goe was reduce(except triple axel),she cannot recieve goe more than 2 points no longer.
nrw trophy protocol
Ito Midori had have 3a and even 5 kind of jump, but she could not beat kristy Yamaguchi.
In this forum i can see just they want to mao will beat yuna
What about the scores of the loop ... what about 3lz ...They will be on mao's side
Last edited by venlac; 02-10-2013 at 07:20 AM.
After what happened to Mao at the Olympics, it seems the rule change was made so that 3A jumpers have a better chance of winning in future competitions. Which is fine with me since I agree that 3A jumpers shouldn't have been limited in that regard in the first place. But as pointed out before, Mao was never at a disadvantage to begin with, technically speaking. She just wasn't able to milk the COP for points the way Yuna did.
Last edited by Figga; 02-10-2013 at 06:30 AM.
I don't think the base value should necessarily be based on creating an incentive for girls to train the 3A. It is a difficult and dangerous jump for women, and seems near-impossible do it as well, with the same impressive ease, height, and quality, as the men often do and Midori Ito did. But it seems like there is a lot of eagerness to see more things like triple axels and quads (another current thread on this board) in the ladies event, which is a result of good spirit and wanting more excitement, but seems unrealistic and maybe irresponsible to me. That's just my view, it shouldn't necessarily be encouraged or made such a strong incentive that whoever lands a 3A wins, but it should be rewarded. And I think has been rewarded more with the rule changes. This thread was created after Mao landed a triple axel in the short program, and it helped her to get a large lead over a strong skate by Akiko. Do people think Mao should have been even more ahead, that she still wasn't rewarded enough?
I do not know what the justification is an essential element in the sp, 2a → 2a and 3a
(will not 2a , she have a benefit from the technical score)
the reason that in sp double axel was an essential element,
In order to evaluate appraisal the double axel that all female skaters can jump...
You can argue that all the requirements in the short program are "unfair" to a certain extent, but none of the other rules governing the short program were implemented at a time when only one skater could benefit and take advantage.
It's not my interpretation. The only part that is my opinion is how I personally feel about the rule having been implemented. But it's not my "interpretation" of events that the rule change of allowing the 3A in the SP was done to benefit Mao. That was so obviously done for Mao that it is mind-boggling that you dispute it. This was all discussed and documentation was posted on Goldenskate back in the summer of 2010, when the rules were passed. A JSF official publicly stated that they were going to propose the rule change for Mao. And then that's what happened. It's not my opinion. Here, read this post:And no, it's not the facts that make me cringe. It's your continuieng interpretation of the allowance of a 3A instead of the 2A in the SP to be purely made to benefit Mao. Sounds very political to me. And that is not a fact - it's your way to put it. Having to do a 2A when you are capable of a 3A is not right - if there is one, ten, or hundreds of skaters affected by that. And I'm saying that completly unrelated to who that skater is.
For the record, I think the change in rules regarding DG/UR and changes in base value were a GOOD thing to encourage quads and triple axels--that benefited Mao and I have no problem with that. But rules shouldn't be changed on a whim to benefit or punish the strengths or weaknesses of one skater and in contrast with the historical precedent. Most ISU rule changes aren't like that--just this one.
Purpose of the short program is different than the free program. The 3A was never illicit in the FS, and it wasn't banned from the SP, either, you just had to do it as a combo.According to jaylee 3/3 among the ladies were allowed only when a lot of skaters could do it. The same with quads among the men. And only then can we allow ladies to perform 3A in SP - when there will be plenty of them. But how can the ladies be ecnoured to do 3A and actually even think about learning this jump and later on attempting it if it would be illicit?
***... what a way of thinking, it was on highest time that the 3A was allowed as a single jump, the fact that they have been prohibiting it for so long, just shows the unfairness that was done to 3A jumpers and to Mao in particular!
All of you are missing the fact that Mao could have done 3A out of steps in the SP. Not that requiring steps would be any fairer than requiring 3A be in combination, which pretty much negates the advantage it would give a female skater incapable of performing 3A-3T. It would be like saying "oh you can do 3Lz-3T? Well that's an unfair advantage, we'll only let you do it out of steps or mandatory -3 GOE"
Last edited by CarneAsada; 02-10-2013 at 11:39 AM.
The new SP rule benefits any skater who can do a 3-axel and other triples in that the skater no longer is required to do a 2-axel to fill her three jump passes, which I think is totally fair. Before the revision, Mao HAD to include a 2-axel even though she had demonstrated her ability to do an axel jump already by doing a 3-axel. It made for a redundant program component, when SP is all about displaying a full range of basic skills.
Yes, I think the 3-axel revisions benefit only Mao in the short run, because she's the only one good enough with it to attempt it in competition right now, but that doesn't mean other skaters can't benefit either. The rule doesn't say, let's reward 8.5 for 3-axel if Mao lands them. The rule says, any skater who does a 3-axel gets 8.5 base points.
I am sure that ISU did not agree to the revisions for Mao's sake. It was more to try and prevent a jump regression that was occuring under CoP. Before CoP, there was talk of women doing quads. Mao trained the quad. So did Miki, and she even attempted them in competition, but the value of these more difficult jumps was so small in proportion to other elements and components that it no longer made any sense for women to even try and train for them. That's why ISU made those point changes, to encourage more difficult jump content.