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Thread: 2013 4CCs Pairs FS

  1. #31
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    Can anyone tell me if Zhang/Bartolomay's scores are enough to meet the minimum standard? It would be nice if they could get that requirement out of the way.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    At this point, it would be a surprise for them not to. The way they're being scored and have been skating, top seven is VERY reasonable for both. They are 4th and 5th in the SB list.
    If they skate in London like here, no question will be getting an extra spot for Canada.
    This year is a great opportunity for them considering the injuries of the top chinese teams, also B/L and the top american team.
    When you get such an opening, you better march through it!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    If they skate in London like here, no question will be getting an extra spot for Canada.
    This year is a great opportunity for them considering the injuries of the top chinese teams, also B/L and the top american team.
    When you get such an opening, you better march through it!
    Additionally the break-up of T/T. The pairs field is essentially decimated.

    Gold is locked to V/T. Silver will go to S/S. Bronze is gonna be a fight between P/T, B/L, D/R and arguably Mt/M.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Additionally the break-up of T/T. The pairs field is essentially decimated.

    Gold is locked to V/T. Silver will go to S/S. Bronze is gonna be a fight between P/T, B/L, D/R and arguably Mt/M.
    Yes, you are right. I forgot about T/T. They are now history anyways

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.H.Black View Post
    Can anyone tell me if Zhang/Bartolomay's scores are enough to meet the minimum standard? It would be nice if they could get that requirement out of the way.
    As far as I can tell, Zhang/Bartholomay have exceeded the minimum scores for 2013 Worlds by healthy margins.
    (Question: Is it not possible that the ISU will set new minimums for the Olympics and for 2014 Worlds? Hopefully Z/B's scores already are high enough to keep them above any new minimums. They might be cutting it close for the SP.)

    Minimum Total Technical Scores for Pairs:
    - SP 24.00 points (changed from 28.00)
    - FS 41.00 points (changed from 45.00)
    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4235

    Zhang/Bartholomay
    - SP 29.60 http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2013/SEG005.HTM
    - FS 61.27 http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2013/SEG006.HTM

  6. #36
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    PAIRS FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

    1. Meagan DUHAMEL & Eric RADFORD (CAN) - 199.18 Free Skate
    2. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS & Dylan MOSCOVITCH (CAN) - 196.78 Free Skate
    3. Marissa CASTELLI & Simon SHNAPIR (USA) - 170.10 Free Skate
    4. Felicia ZHANG & Nathan BARTHOLOMAY (USA) - 167.30 Free Skate
    5. Cheng PENG & Hao ZHANG (CHN) - 164.82 Free Skate
    6. Paige LAWRENCE & Rudi SWIEGERS (CAN) - 162.30 Free Skate
    7. Wenting WANG & Yan ZHANG (CHN) - 145.56 Free Skate
    Last edited by Mao88; 02-10-2013 at 02:20 PM.

  7. #37
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    The judges really were on crack giving M-T/M PCS 2.5 points higher than to D/R.

    M-T/M skated with a lot of power, yes, but their program was quite empty and they don't have the polish that D/R managed to acquire. D/R had much more complex choreography and a program with a lot of detail in it, presented beautifully.

    I understand that M-T/M really gave it 110% and had this "WOW effect" but the judges should be able to see beyond that and judge PCS appopriately.

    I also think that Castelli/Shnapir were overmarked both on the GOE and the PCS. I was very surprised that Zhang/Bartolomay didn't manage to beat them in the FS at least.

    I'd also have Lawrence/Swiegers further ahead of Pang/Zhang in the FS. They skated beautifully, good flow, quite elegant. P/Z, on the other hand, were a hot mess. Yeah 4twist was great but they didn't even pretend to skate to the music and it looked like she was being dragged across the ice by him.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I understand that M-T/M really gave it 110% and had this "WOW effect" but the judges should be able to see beyond that and judge PCS appopriately.
    In fairness, the judges only should be able to see beyond that. They've demonstrated time and time again that the wow factor, whether it be quads, hip thrusts, or loud music, will make PCS skyrocket. I just think we need to lower our expectations a bit.

    That said, I'm more impressed that Mt/M actually have that wow effect now. When we first saw this program, I didn't think they'd be able to truly fill an arena with it, and they've done so.

  9. #39
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    i'm glad that some of you share my opinion about pairs world-wide being a complete mess this season (minus V/T and S/S)

    I'm actually really excited for the Zhang/Bartolomay partnership. The improved so much this season, and 4CC was a great experience for them...i'm excited to see what they do next season and beyond. Their programs lack intricacies and true difficulty right now, but what they are doing, is really good. as long as they stay together and don't rush towards success i think they could be a very good team.
    Castelli/Schnapir are always fun to watch, and their lifts are gorgeous, but consistency and not having the best international track-record is an issue for them...we all know at this point that they have harder technical elements that they can do, but until they stop making small/silly mistakes, it's still not enough.

    I always respect Duhamel/Radford for going for the hard stuff (and when they hit the lutzs it's always a reminder of what other pairs teams AREN'T doing), but i just don't find them interesting, and at times they look sloppy. obviously they benefit from the TES boost if they hit, and there's a maturity in their skating that isn't over-wrought...but i feel a little bit ho-hum when I watch them...like they just dont' stand out.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The judges really were on crack giving M-T/M PCS 2.5 points higher than to D/R.

    M-T/M skated with a lot of power, yes, but their program was quite empty and they don't have the polish that D/R managed to acquire. D/R had much more complex choreography and a program with a lot of detail in it, presented beautifully.

    I understand that M-T/M really gave it 110% and had this "WOW effect" but the judges should be able to see beyond that and judge PCS appopriately.

    I also think that Castelli/Shnapir were overmarked both on the GOE and the PCS. I was very surprised that Zhang/Bartolomay didn't manage to beat them in the FS at least.

    I'd also have Lawrence/Swiegers further ahead of Pang/Zhang in the FS. They skated beautifully, good flow, quite elegant. P/Z, on the other hand, were a hot mess. Yeah 4twist was great but they didn't even pretend to skate to the music and it looked like she was being dragged across the ice by him.
    Components are exactly based on the "wow effect" - artistic interpretation, choreography, skating skills, etc. If you've ever seen them both skate live there's no doubt that MT/Ms components are better D/Rs. D/Rs strength is their first score (technical). MT/M really have moved above and beyond with their second score and their technical components beat D/Rs with a fall. D/R may have a tougher road at worlds if MT/M can skate clean. MT/M will also have crowd advantage as they train out of waterloo which is about 45 minutes - 1 hour away from London. And they're both from 1.5-2.5 hours away. They're really putting the pressure on and if this performance was an indicator about how D/R perform under pressure after nationals, I think MT/M have a strong chance to capitalize.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by icebeauty View Post

    I'm actually really excited for the Zhang/Bartolomay partnership.
    Me, too! I know I've written it before, but I see something young and fresh about them. I really haven't even been interested in pairs for years... and in American pairs for longer than that. That the US national bronze medalists have caught my eye is fascinating to me.

    Switching subjects: I know this is off the wall, but I wonder if a good dance coach would take them on. I think Dance is much more innovative than the other disciplines now, and dance teams seem to have better carriage, choreography, steps, line... and DEFINITELY better pair spins than the pairs do. Yeah, I know we're supposed to call them "dance spins" but you get what I mean. In addition, dance lifts may lack some of the daring that pairs lifts do, but overall they're more inventive and interesting.

    Wouldn't it be crazy to get someone like Marina to choreograph a program for them... just an awesome program with the tricks sprinkled in.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The judges really were on crack giving M-T/M PCS 2.5 points higher than to D/R.

    M-T/M skated with a lot of power, yes, but their program was quite empty and they don't have the polish that D/R managed to acquire. D/R had much more complex choreography and a program with a lot of detail in it, presented beautifully.
    I agree that M-T/M's program is a bit empty choreographically, and they're not stretching themselves artistically. The program is just so archetypally "North American pairs style"--the Muzak rock music, the boring costumes, the lack of choreographic detail and interest; just everything about it is generic.

    On the other hand, I didn't really like D/R's program either. They are trying something different artistically this year, but it's not clicking. The program feels sort of workmanlike; it doesn't sing. And trying for a more lyrical style is somehow highlighting their differences as skaters, rather than their pairs quality. Eric handles the sweeping, romantic movement rather well, but I don't see that as much with Meagan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I also think that Castelli/Shnapir were overmarked both on the GOE and the PCS. I was very surprised that Zhang/Bartolomay didn't manage to beat them in the FS at least.
    This I don't agree with. I actually really enjoyed C/S's program (except for the SBS spins, which were almost comically bad). Now I'll admit I'm biased, because C/S are my hometown pair. Still, though, I really like this tango program. I find the choreography very interesting, and challenging, and they're looking more comfortable and confident with it all the time. I like how the choreography really highlights Marissa at various points. This is smart--she's a great performer, and they need to use that.

    I enjoyed Zhang/Bartholomay quite a bit, but don't think they deserved to beat C/S. Z/B started off well, but the program got away from them a bit in the second half. Not only did they fall on the second throw, but also their pairs spin and final lift were well behind the music and needed to be rotating much faster. I think they did really well to get 4th, though. And I do like this team. They seem really well matched in most ways--their personalities work well together on ice--so I look forward to seeing more of them. Hopefully they'll get some GP assignments next year. My advice to them: Get away from Peterson and find a new coach who can help you develop artistically. Peterson IMO is almost as bad as Tom Z when it comes to stunting his skaters' artistic growth.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    In fairness, the judges only should be able to see beyond that. They've demonstrated time and time again that the wow factor, whether it be quads, hip thrusts, or loud music, will make PCS skyrocket. I just think we need to lower our expectations a bit.
    Yeah I know but it's not right. *throws a strop* :P

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8inluvah View Post
    Components are exactly based on the "wow effect"
    They shouldn't be though. They have a set of criteria that they are supposed to be based on.
    Program Components Explanations

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8inluvah View Post
    If you've ever seen them both skate live there's no doubt that MT/Ms components are better D/Rs. D/Rs strength is their first score (technical).
    Speed probably yes (although it's easier to skate faster if your program construction is less complex) but what else are M-T/M better in?

    Quote Originally Posted by eyria View Post
    This I don't agree with. I actually really enjoyed C/S's program (except for the SBS spins, which were almost comically bad). Now I'll admit I'm biased, because C/S are my hometown pair. Still, though, I really like this tango program. I find the choreography very interesting, and challenging, and they're looking more comfortable and confident with it all the time. I like how the choreography really highlights Marissa at various points. This is smart--she's a great performer, and they need to use that.

    I enjoyed Zhang/Bartholomay quite a bit, but don't think they deserved to beat C/S. Z/B started off well, but the program got away from them a bit in the second half. Not only did they fall on the second throw, but also their pairs spin and final lift were well behind the music and needed to be rotating much faster. I think they did really well to get 4th, though. And I do like this team. They seem really well matched in most ways--their personalities work well together on ice--so I look forward to seeing more of them. Hopefully they'll get some GP assignments next year. My advice to them: Get away from Peterson and find a new coach who can help you develop artistically. Peterson IMO is almost as bad as Tom Z when it comes to stunting his skaters' artistic growth.
    I do agree that Duhamel/Radford's FS doesn't necessarily "click" but it did seem to tick most of the PCS boxes. Which should be more important than whether you feel that you really like the program or not.

    I do agree that Z/B's program started very well but they seemed to have run out of steam in the second half.

    I think they were more elegant than C/S, though. The huge height difference between Castelli and Shnapir really highlights their subpar posture and lines (his in particular). And I wasn't buying their program at all. I felt like it did have some in-character tango-ish movements but that was mostly posing here and there and it didn't flow well or work well as a whole.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 02-11-2013 at 09:58 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggy View Post
    the judges really were on crack giving m-t/m pcs 2.5 points higher than to d/r.

    M-t/m skated with a lot of power, yes, but their program was quite empty and they don't have the polish that d/r managed to acquire. D/r had much more complex choreography and a program with a lot of detail in it, presented beautifully.

    I understand that m-t/m really gave it 110% and had this "wow effect" but the judges should be able to see beyond that and judge pcs appopriately.


    I also think that castelli/shnapir were overmarked both on the goe and the pcs. I was very surprised that zhang/bartolomay didn't manage to beat them in the fs at least.

    I'd also have lawrence/swiegers further ahead of pang/zhang in the fs. They skated beautifully, good flow, quite elegant. P/z, on the other hand, were a hot mess. Yeah 4twist was great but they didn't even pretend to skate to the music and it looked like she was being dragged across the ice by him.
    ita

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    The two Canadians teams just added their names into the mix for a world medal. B and L are coming back from injured and have sort of moved ahead of K and S - for now - and I am not so sure why K and S were dropped so abruptly. Pang and Tong with his injury and age are hugely questionable. The Italians are inconsistent. T and T are gone and even if they were skating were hit or miss. sui and han are coming back from injury so the door is open if eithe rteam can skate clean. They aren't all that special but such is life.

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