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Thread: 4CC Ladies Free Skate

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong. But boring SP+boring LP vs. terrible SP+awesome LP, I'll take the latter (from a preference point of view.)

    And yes, the USFSA has massive favoritism going on. With Wagner. Her PCS at Nats beat-out what Worlds Champions have gotten...and then Nagasu was KILLED by the judges and tech panel afterwards which pissed me off greatly.

    I didn't pay attention to Gold in her junior circuit, but if what people say are true, that she can be a spitfire, then...I understand why they went with Wagner+Gold.

    Addition: YuNa has the layout she has right now because of the above, plus she doesn't want to break-up her 3-3.

    BTW the tech panel here was hard. There are a few UR's on the protocol sheet that I wasn't expecting.
    Gold's FS at Junior worlds was pretty good. Great, IMO. She has issues with nerves, I could tell she was nervous just by her body language before her skate. Unfortunately, she doesn't have much time to get it under control. Worlds are soon, and Sochi is next year.

  2. #242
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambivalent View Post
    I respectfully disagree. I think her edge going into the flip could still be better; it's still a bit wobbly in my humble opinion.
    Yes, of course her flip could still improve, and I hope it will improve because she needs to increase her 3-3 success rate. But compared to Nationals and GP, where she was under-rotating her flip, her flip at 4CC was a huge improvement. This improvement gives me hope that it'll get even better quite soon.

    Mao's 'flip improvement' is really remarkable in that she didn't actually try and fiddle and improve her old flip technique. She just basically learnt a new jump, which is her flip now. And she did that all the while improving her skating skills and all her other jump techniques. There is not one jump of her's that hasn't gotten a makeover. Even her loop got a revision. Her toe loop, probably, got the least change. All this she did amidst her mother's prolonged illness. It's totally remarkable.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Yes, of course her flip could still improve, and I hope it will improve because she needs to increase her 3-3 success rate. But compared to Nationals and GP, where she was under-rotating her flip, her flip at 4CC was a huge improvement. This improvement gives me hope that it'll get even better quite soon.

    Mao's 'flip improvement' is really remarkable in that she didn't actually try and fiddle and improve her old flip technique. She just basically learnt a new jump, which is her flip now. And she did that all the while improving her skating skills and all her other jump techniques. There is not one jump of her's that hasn't gotten a makeover. Even her loop got a revision. Her toe loop, probably, got the least change. All this she did amidst her mother's prolonged illness. It's totally remarkable.
    Yes Mao deserves for making the changes she saw fit in order to reach higher heights. I mean for heaven's sake, an Olympic silver medallist and two time world champion completely reviewing her technique and taking the falls for it in the past two years? She is a wonder.

  4. #244
    Blue-footed Booby aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    Addition: YuNa has the layout she has right now because of the above, plus she doesn't want to break-up her 3-3.

    BTW the tech panel here was hard. There are a few UR's on the protocol sheet that I wasn't expecting.
    I thought Yuna's 3-3 waa pretty much a given, so I didn't mention it. It would be a sad and strange day if Yuna ever came to competition without a planned 3-3.

  5. #245
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateNater View Post
    Gold's FS at Junior worlds was pretty good. Great, IMO. She has issues with nerves, I could tell she was nervous just by her body language before her skate. Unfortunately, she doesn't have much time to get it under control. Worlds are soon, and Sochi is next year.
    Yup...face = deer in headlights.

    bekalc - I agree with everything you say. But I still agree with the USFSA's overall decision. Yes, they got there in a questionable way, but I still don't blame them. Yes, Gold's interpretation skills need a lot of work, and I do not accept "limited international experience" as an excuse. Really, Gold die-hard fans have been saying that for too long. Plenty of girls have been in those shoes before and they're not as hot and cold as she's been. But, maybe she'll surprise us the next time.

  6. #246
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambivalent View Post
    Yes Mao deserves for making the changes she saw fit in order to reach higher heights. I mean for heaven's sake, an Olympic silver medallist and two time world champion completely reviewing her technique and taking the falls for it in the past two years? She is a wonder.



  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    The thing is Gold really doesn't have a lot of international experience. She only had one JGP last season-which she did win. And she had Junior Worlds where she got a silver medal (and world team trophy where she did not so well)

    On the Grand Prix, she was a mess at Skate Canada and had problems at Cup of Russia. Gold right now is hit or mess. Yes she skated well in the long program at Nationals but even she admitted that she had nothing to lose at this point.

    If your asking me long term who I think has more potential-I actually will agree its Gold. But what I'm not convinced of right now is that Gold is ready for the type of pressure this Worlds would bring...

    Gao was more consistent overall at Nationals, and was frankly more consistent throughout the Grand Prix...There's a reason you have two programs in a competition....

    And right now I find minus the jumps-Gold pretty boring too.
    There is a reason, however with the current point system there is a lot of ways you can make up ground in the FS. Gold is a better jumper and spinner than Gao, so she gains a lot of points there. She is faster, she has better transitions. CH and IN are only 2 parts of PCS, and given the rest of what Gao does that is not enough to overtake Gold when she skates clean. That is why Gold got the scores she got, which was in line with Tuktamysheva at Europeans for a similar skate with similar qualities - so I don't see what's so odd about her Nationals score... If Asada/Kim/Kostner skate clean programs they will probably still be close to 10 points higher than her, especially when you factor in their PCS lead in the short program to add onto it.

    Gao is not going to get anywhere near the world Podium and unless she does a lot of improvement and some upgrades between now and Sochi she isn't going to the Olympics, either. The US isn't going to Gamble with a skater who hasn't been to Worlds again. That's why they were ready to put Sasha Cohen on the Podium in 2010 until she imploded in the FS at Nationals.
    Last edited by SkateNater; 02-10-2013 at 06:12 AM.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I thought Yuna's 3-3 waa pretty much a given, so I didn't mention it. It would be a sad and strange day if Yuna ever came to competition without a planned 3-3.
    Her 3-3 gives her so much versatility because if she doesn't do the opening 3Lz well she can always do a 3F-3T as her 3-3. Yu-Na's skating for some reason has always had a degree of "in-built" safety because her toe technique is so brilliant. I'm sure she could do 3Sal-3T if she really wanted to.

  9. #249
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    I thought Yuna's 3-3 waa pretty much a given, so I didn't mention it. It would be a sad and strange day if Yuna ever came to competition without a planned 3-3.
    Yes, it's totally a given, not worth mentioning at all.

  10. #250
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    LADIES FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

    1. Mao ASADA (JPN) - 205.45 Free Skate
    2. Akiko SUZUKI (JPN) - 190.08 Free Skate
    3. Kanako MURAKAMI (JPN) - 181.03
    4. Christina GAO (USA) - 176.28
    5. Zijun LI (CHN) - 170.42
    6. Gracie GOLD (USA) - 166.66
    7. Kaetlyn OSMOND (CAN) - 159.38
    8. Agnes ZAWADZKI (USA) - 158.99
    9. Amelie LACOSTE (CAN) - 155.08
    10. Kexin ZHANG (CHN) - 148.34
    11. Julianne SEGUIN (CAN) - 146.58
    12. Brooklee HAN (AUS) - 134.90
    13. Reyna HAMUI (MEX) - 123.69
    14. Chantelle KERRY (AUS) - 118.11
    15. Crystal KIANG (TPE) - 109.15
    16. Yeon Jun PARK (KOR) - 106.79
    17. Melissa BULANHAGUI (PHI) - 106.36
    18. Lejeanne MARAIS (RSA) - 105.06
    19. Melinda WANG (TPE) - 96.95
    20. Ami PAREKH (IND) - 88.39

  11. #251
    Blue-footed Booby aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    Yes, it's totally a given, not worth mentioning at all.
    Nope, not even an honorable mention.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambivalent View Post
    Her 3-3 gives her so much versatility because if she doesn't do the opening 3Lz well she can always do a 3F-3T as her 3-3. Yu-Na's skating for some reason has always had a degree of "in-built" safety because her toe technique is so brilliant. I'm sure she could do 3Sal-3T if she really wanted to.
    Well, she seems to lean a bit on a Sal quite a bit, so I'm not sure that's a given.

    Her Toe technique isn't really brilliant. It isn't even close to flawless. What is flawless is her ability to jump straight up without even drawing her foot back on the toe loop and rotate almost a full 3 turns without the built-in free half turn of a proper toe loop take-off. She does it every time. It does cause my jaw to drop consistently.

    She has strong legs. Looks can be deceiving.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateNater View Post
    Well, she seems to lean a bit on a Sal quite a bit, so I'm not sure that's a given.

    Her Toe technique isn't really brilliant. It isn't even close to flawless. What is flawless is her ability to jump straight up without even drawing her foot back on the toe loop and rotate almost a full 3 turns without the built-in free half turn of a proper toe loop take-off.

    She has strong legs. Looks can be deceiving.
    I said "if she wanted to" for a reason. I am well aware that 3S isn't her best jump, but it's better than average and she can still get a +1GOE for it generally (plus the >halfway bonus). Certainly her 3T is more steady and less prone to UR calls than a 3Lo as the back half of a combination.

    Can you please state your skating credentials as for evaluating toe technique? I am curious, because I have heard Scott and Kurt gush about it before and well, they're legends of the sport.

  14. #254
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateNater View Post
    There is a reason, however with the current point system there is a lot of ways you can make up ground in the FS. Gold is a better jumper and spinner than Gao, so she gains a lot of points there. She is faster, she has better transitions. CH and IN are only 2 parts of PCS, and given the rest of what Gao does that is not enough to overtake Gold when she skates clean. That is why Gold got the scores she got, which was in line with Tuktamysheva at Europeans for a similar skate with similar qualities - so I don't see what's so odd about her Nationals score... If Asada/Kim/Kostner skate clean programs they will probably still be close to 10 points higher than her, especially when you factor in their PCS lead in the short program to add onto it.

    Gao is not going to get anywhere near the world Podium and unless she does a lot of improvement and some upgrades between now and Sochi she isn't going to the Olympics, either. The US isn't going to Gamble with a skater who hasn't been to Worlds again. That's why they were ready to put Sasha Cohen on the Podium in 2010 until she imploded in the FS at Nationals.
    Nobody said that Gao should overtake Gold when Gold skates clean...The argument though was that Gold's horrific short program was held up and that Gold's PCS were far too high as well. Did I disagree with Gold placing above Gao in the long-No. I disagree with overall based on how bad Gold was in the short.

    And as for Tukt. I think that Tukt at Europeans gave a much better performance (artistically than Gracie did) Tukt at moments frankly came ALIVE and really got into her music. She put some real passion into her program at the end Gracie didn't. And I actually find Tukt sloppier than Gracie, but Tukt right now is a better performer. And what I would point out is if your going to give Gracie that kind of score than Gao's free program score should have been a bit higher than it was too. Not 130, but around 123/124.

    I'm sorry but Elizaveta interacted with the crowd at Europeans, Gracie didn't do anywhere near the same.. She tends to have a plastered grin on her face. And performance wise is a bit wooden.

    Now I think Gracie can learn to perform better in time. But to say as a performance it compares to Tukt is something I heavily disagree with.
    Last edited by bekalc; 02-10-2013 at 06:23 AM.

  15. #255
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateNater View Post
    Well, she seems to lean a bit on a Sal quite a bit, so I'm not sure that's a given.

    Her Toe technique isn't really brilliant. It isn't even close to flawless. What is flawless is her ability to jump straight up without even drawing her foot back on the toe loop and rotate almost a full 3 turns without the built-in free half turn of a proper toe loop take-off. She does it every time. It does cause my jaw to drop consistently.

    She has strong legs. Looks can be deceiving.
    A half-turn pre-rotation is not normal for a 3T, and YuNa doesn't usually get enough speed coming out of a 3S to realistically tack on a 3T.

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