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Thread: 4CC Ladies Free Skate

  1. #376
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Mao's score is very high, considering the mistakes. Her mistakes were actually quite similar to the mistakes she made last year at 4CC's--she two-footed her triple axel and doubled a jump--it was either the look or the salchow. I think she had one other mistake--like a step-out. I can't remember. But the upshot was that she came in second to Ashley Wagner. I don't think Mao will beat Yu Na in the free skate with mistakes like these.
    It was her first time this season with this difficult program, so it had mistakes. We dont know what will happen at worlds. All I know is that the top 3 ladies are letting the babies known that it is not their turn yet to be world champion. Hey anything can happen

  2. #377
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Mao's score is very high, considering the mistakes. Her mistakes were actually quite similar to the mistakes she made last year at 4CC's--she two-footed her triple axel and doubled a jump--it was either the look or the salchow. I think she had one other mistake--like a step-out. I can't remember. But the upshot was that she came in second to Ashley Wagner. I don't think Mao will beat Yu Na in the free skate with mistakes like these.
    Mao's swan lake program is beautifully chroegraphed and beautifully performed. Her PCS deserve to be higher here, as do points for her step sequences.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    how do you know ? Osmond got 115+ in Canadian soil at SC with 1 fall, Worlds generally will get inflated as its near end of the season
    Osmond with 2 falls will probably score 118+ in LP at London, though its shwing Osmond isnt taht much of nerves of steel as others have said
    she can implode too but she is lucky its home soil so Top 5 is lock for her
    How do I know? Because I have seen Kaetlyn Osmond skate, and I've also seen Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Ashley Wagner, Akiko Suzuki, Carolina Kostner, and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva skate. Top 5 isn't a lock for anyone except for Yuna and maybe Carolina. And all five of the above mentioned are head-and-shoulders over Osmond.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    They both fell here yet Gao still beats Gold... Gold fell at nats yet beat Gao by a long shot. You know good and well what the point is. Gold-flation is alive and well in the U.S.
    I wasn't denying that Gold-flation is present in the US, but that's the case for every skater on home ice. Gold's FS at Nats was also miles better than any of the others, as evidenced by her seven-triple program.

    Gao fell once with an edge call. Gold fell once, popped a lutz, got two edge calls, and had a hand down. So, yes, I'm failing to see your point.

  5. #380
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateNater View Post
    I understand Zayak rule. They changed the rule, which makes it not a "Basic Zayak Rule" since that one existed since 6.0, almost 30 years ago.
    That's an interesting bit of history. I tried to research it by looking up the proceedings of the ISU Congresses, but you have to sign up for some kind of membership to view them.

    Anyway, for sure by the 47th Ordinary Congress in 1998 the rule was in place that no more than two jumps can be repeated. This was the year they extended the original Zayak rule to include quads. As of the 1998=99 season no more than two jumps of the same kind with three or more rotations can be repeated (but for instance you can repeat a quad toe and also repeat a triple toe), and for repeated jumps one of the repetitions must be in combination, etc.

    They also firmed up the language that year about sequences. Previously, one repeated jump could be repeated in a sequence, not necessarily a combination.

    The newest rule incorporates double Axels into the Zayak fold -- sort of. No more than two double Azels. But you can repeat two double Axels and two different triple jumps as well.

    I think it is OK terminology to call all rules of this type "Zayak Rules," although I don't think that is an official ISU term.

    By the way, the person who was behind the original Zayak rules in 1982 was our fave ISU lady, Sonia Bianchetti.

  6. #381
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I wasn't denying that Gold-flation is present in the US, but that's the case for every skater on home ice. Gold's FS at Nats was also miles better than any of the others, as evidenced by her seven-triple program.

    Gao fell once with an edge call. Gold fell once, popped a lutz, got two edge calls, and had a hand down. So, yes, I'm failing to see your point.
    Some skaters get much higher Pcs increases than other skaters at Nationals. Agnes is a prime example of this one.....She doesn't get higher PCS internationally than Gao, but that's not the case at Nationals. And its not likes Agnes outskated Gao at nationals either. Its very clear there are political favorites at Nationals, and non political favorites at Nationals... Now I think Agnes is one of the most talented of US ladies. But she's a skater who has yet to live up to her talent either nationally or internationally. If she were to skate perfectly and Gao were to skate perfectly I would give to Agnes....But that's not whats happening.

    I'm sorry but I find it problematic-to say the least.

    Now I think its one thing if we are talking about a well established skater who gets higher PCS due to rep. But right now Agnes has been around the Senior scene longer than Gao, and Gao so far has been better received as a Senior...

    I think Agnes skates light out she really does have everything to be a top lady...But she's not skating lights out, so why hold her up?
    Last edited by bekalc; 02-10-2013 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Mao's score is very high, considering the mistakes. Her mistakes were actually quite similar to the mistakes she made last year at 4CC's--she two-footed her triple axel and doubled a jump--it was either the look or the salchow. I think she had one other mistake--like a step-out. I can't remember. But the upshot was that she came in second to Ashley Wagner. I don't think Mao will beat Yu Na in the free skate with mistakes like these.
    Well, I don't care about her score because this 4CC took place in Japan :P
    4CC is 4CC and worlds is worlds.

  8. #383
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    Just wanted to say that Akiko Suzuki is why I love watching figure skating. The last minute of her program gave me goosebumps, and was very reminiscent for me of watching The Kween do her thing, particularly with that spiral and joyful smile. Glad to see her rewarded (at last) with some great PCS scores.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Some skaters get much higher Pcs increases than other skaters at Nationals. Agnes is a prime example of this one.....She doesn't get higher PCS internationally than Gao, but that's not the case at Nationals. And its not likes Agnes outskated Gao at nationals either. Its very clear there are political favorites at Nationals, and non political favorites at Nationals... Now I think Agnes is one of the most talented of US ladies. But she's a skater who has yet to live up to her talent either nationally or internationally. If she were to skate perfectly and Gao were to skate perfectly I would give to Agnes....But that's not whats happening.

    I'm sorry but I find it problematic-to say the least.
    But what does Agnes have to do with leafygreens' "Gold-flation"? Everyone is inflated at Nationals, and up until this season, Gao was a pretty unremarkable skater. She still needs to make a name and reputation for herself like Gold and Wagner already have. And, IMO, Agnes has more wow-factor with her big jumps and flashy music. Christina has lovely, expressive lines, but she doesn't make the music a special or memorable experience, if you catch my drift. By comparison, if we can leave the US for a moment, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva never fails to draw the audience into the music. Her interpretations of "Adios Nonino" and "Dark Eyes" always leave me with goosebumps.

    Leafygreen is arguing "national conspiracy" because a nearly-clean Gao beat a Gold meltdown. Big surprise. Gao isn't awarded very high PCS internationally, and her jumps are nothing spectacular. The US needs Wagner's PCS and Gold's technical content for Worlds.
    Last edited by ForeverFish; 02-10-2013 at 10:29 PM.

  10. #385
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    Akiko and Mao were simply magical. Akiko's program is everything that is right about figure skating. I could watch it over and over again! Everything is so meaningful and done to the music so well. So often skating programes are just a sequence of elements, but this was an incredibly cohesive whole. Loved it. I hope she continues to work with Carmelengo.

    Mao's footwork is brilliant and I hope she continues to improve. I am really impressed by her ability and desire to improve her skating, despite already being an Olympic medalist & world champion, during very tough personal circumstances.

    Finally, since we're discussing Worlds here...I think Carolina, Mao and Yu-Na will be the podium if they skate as they are capable of. That said, after watching 4CCs and rewatching YuNa at her nationals and Carolina's skate at Europeans....I hope that Carolina and Mao are the first two. In fact, I'd rather Akiko (or Adelina or Ashley) medal over Yu-Na. Like someone above me said, I respect Yu-Na's skill, but she does not move me like the other skaters do.

    I think that Mao and Carolina and Akiko have both shown tremendous artistic growth that Yu-Na has not. Whether that's because of Yu-Na's layoff or natural ability/desire, I don't know. But for me, Akiko, Carolina & Mao are very purposeful in their movements; they use the accents and change their movements according to what they're skating to. It's like the music is coming out of their fingertips. Yu-Na, in my opinion, does not. She's a good performer - better than most - but she's not the artist that Mao and Carolina have become. Her movements seem...generic? put on? shallow? Technically, she's amazing, but I think that this lack of genuine artistry keeps me from really enjoying her skating.

    (On another note, Yu-Na's spiral is really quite ugly - and I'm so sick of the David Wilson facestroking choreography).

    With the three Japanese girls, Yu-Na, Carolina, Kiira, Ashley, Gracie, Liza, Adelina and Kaitlyn, it will hopefully be a great Worlds competition. It's a very deep field this year.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Mao's swan lake program is beautifully chroegraphed and beautifully performed. Her PCS deserve to be higher here, as do points for her step sequences.
    I watched her Liebenstraum program from 4CC's last year again and I liked it just as much. It was beautifully choreographed and performed too, albeit with mistakes. Mao made the same mistakes again this year. If she does it at Worlds, she will leave the door open for Yu Na and perhaps others.

  12. #387
    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    I find Yuna to be infinitely more artistic than Mao or Carolina. Indeed, what sets Yuna apart from her peers is not actually technical skills... it is her artistry and effortless skating.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    It was her first time this season with this difficult program, so it had mistakes. We dont know what will happen at worlds. All I know is that the top 3 ladies are letting the babies known that it is not their turn yet to be world champion. Hey anything can happen
    It wasn't her first time. She skated it at the Grand Prix and Grand Prix Final and at Japan Nationals. She is undefeated with it so far. Has she skated it clean yet? I know she didn't at her Grand Prix events.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by YunaBliss View Post
    I find Yuna to be infinitely more artistic than Mao or Carolina. Indeed, what sets Yuna apart from her peers is not actually technical skills... it is her artistry and effortless skating.
    As stated above, I completely disagree. Different strokes and all.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    Akiko and Mao were simply magical. Akiko's program is everything that is right about figure skating. I could watch it over and over again! Everything is so meaningful and done to the music so well. So often skating programes are just a sequence of elements, but this was an incredibly cohesive whole. Loved it. I hope she continues to work with Carmelengo.

    Mao's footwork is brilliant and I hope she continues to improve. I am really impressed by her ability and desire to improve her skating, despite already being an Olympic medalist & world champion, during very tough personal circumstances.

    Finally, since we're discussing Worlds here...I think Carolina, Mao and Yu-Na will be the podium if they skate as they are capable of. That said, after watching 4CCs and rewatching YuNa at her nationals and Carolina's skate at Europeans....I hope that Carolina and Mao are the first two. In fact, I'd rather Akiko (or Adelina or Ashley) medal over Yu-Na. Like someone above me said, I respect Yu-Na's skill, but she does not move me like the other skaters do.

    I think that Mao and Carolina and Akiko have both shown tremendous artistic growth that Yu-Na has not. Whether that's because of Yu-Na's layoff or natural ability/desire, I don't know. But for me, Akiko, Carolina & Mao are very purposeful in their movements; they use the accents and change their movements according to what they're skating to. It's like the music is coming out of their fingertips. Yu-Na, in my opinion, does not. She's a good performer - better than most - but she's not the artist that Mao and Carolina have become. Her movements seem...generic? put on? shallow? Technically, she's amazing, but I think that this lack of genuine artistry keeps me from really enjoying her skating.

    (On another note, Yu-Na's spiral is really quite ugly - and I'm so sick of the David Wilson facestroking choreography).

    With the three Japanese girls, Yu-Na, Carolina, Kiira, Ashley, Gracie, Liza, Adelina and Kaitlyn, it will hopefully be a great Worlds competition. It's a very deep field this year.
    It's a matter of personal preference, ultimately. One could easily swap Mao's and Yuna's names in your post and there you have it - different skaters for different people.

    For me, Mao and YuNa are just so different artistically. Mao expresses joy like no other, but for some reason I am drawn to Yuna's reserved nature. I don't think it's entirely fair for you to suggest that her artistry is in some way less "genuine" - just different and enjoyed more or less by different people. You don't enjoy it, fine - but many others do.

    I recently watched a documentary on the early part of Yuna's life and it featured all her struggles early on - getting adequate practice time, rinks too cold to practice, not being able to get good skating boots. And when I watch some of her earlier performances (and even her Arirang LP) I see a lot of pain and struggle in her expression. Some construe this reserved nature as a lack of artistry; I think it's the opposite. I thought her step sequence in her 2011 Worlds performance to Arirang to be the best she has ever done. If that's not purposeful I don't really know what is...

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