4CC Ladies Free Skate | Page 20 | Golden Skate

4CC Ladies Free Skate

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I wasn't denying that Gold-flation is present in the US, but that's the case for every skater on home ice. Gold's FS at Nats was also miles better than any of the others, as evidenced by her seven-triple program.

Gao fell once with an edge call. Gold fell once, popped a lutz, got two edge calls, and had a hand down. So, yes, I'm failing to see your point.

Some skaters get much higher Pcs increases than other skaters at Nationals. Agnes is a prime example of this one.....She doesn't get higher PCS internationally than Gao, but that's not the case at Nationals. And its not likes Agnes outskated Gao at nationals either. Its very clear there are political favorites at Nationals, and non political favorites at Nationals... Now I think Agnes is one of the most talented of US ladies. But she's a skater who has yet to live up to her talent either nationally or internationally. If she were to skate perfectly and Gao were to skate perfectly I would give to Agnes....But that's not whats happening.

I'm sorry but I find it problematic-to say the least.

Now I think its one thing if we are talking about a well established skater who gets higher PCS due to rep. But right now Agnes has been around the Senior scene longer than Gao, and Gao so far has been better received as a Senior...

I think Agnes skates light out she really does have everything to be a top lady...But she's not skating lights out, so why hold her up?
 
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ehdtkqorl123

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Mao's score is very high, considering the mistakes. Her mistakes were actually quite similar to the mistakes she made last year at 4CC's--she two-footed her triple axel and doubled a jump--it was either the look or the salchow. I think she had one other mistake--like a step-out. I can't remember. But the upshot was that she came in second to Ashley Wagner. I don't think Mao will beat Yu Na in the free skate with mistakes like these.

Well, I don't care about her score because this 4CC took place in Japan :p
4CC is 4CC and worlds is worlds.
 

JQSkate

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Just wanted to say that Akiko Suzuki is why I love watching figure skating. The last minute of her program gave me goosebumps, and was very reminiscent for me of watching The Kween do her thing, particularly with that spiral and joyful smile. Glad to see her rewarded (at last) with some great PCS scores.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Some skaters get much higher Pcs increases than other skaters at Nationals. Agnes is a prime example of this one.....She doesn't get higher PCS internationally than Gao, but that's not the case at Nationals. And its not likes Agnes outskated Gao at nationals either. Its very clear there are political favorites at Nationals, and non political favorites at Nationals... Now I think Agnes is one of the most talented of US ladies. But she's a skater who has yet to live up to her talent either nationally or internationally. If she were to skate perfectly and Gao were to skate perfectly I would give to Agnes....But that's not whats happening.

I'm sorry but I find it problematic-to say the least.

But what does Agnes have to do with leafygreens' "Gold-flation"? Everyone is inflated at Nationals, and up until this season, Gao was a pretty unremarkable skater. She still needs to make a name and reputation for herself like Gold and Wagner already have. And, IMO, Agnes has more wow-factor with her big jumps and flashy music. Christina has lovely, expressive lines, but she doesn't make the music a special or memorable experience, if you catch my drift. By comparison, if we can leave the US for a moment, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva never fails to draw the audience into the music. Her interpretations of "Adios Nonino" and "Dark Eyes" always leave me with goosebumps.

Leafygreen is arguing "national conspiracy" because a nearly-clean Gao beat a Gold meltdown. Big surprise. Gao isn't awarded very high PCS internationally, and her jumps are nothing spectacular. The US needs Wagner's PCS and Gold's technical content for Worlds.
 
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oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Akiko and Mao were simply magical. Akiko's program is everything that is right about figure skating. I could watch it over and over again! Everything is so meaningful and done to the music so well. So often skating programes are just a sequence of elements, but this was an incredibly cohesive whole. Loved it. I hope she continues to work with Carmelengo.

Mao's footwork is brilliant and I hope she continues to improve. I am really impressed by her ability and desire to improve her skating, despite already being an Olympic medalist & world champion, during very tough personal circumstances.

Finally, since we're discussing Worlds here...I think Carolina, Mao and Yu-Na will be the podium if they skate as they are capable of. That said, after watching 4CCs and rewatching YuNa at her nationals and Carolina's skate at Europeans....I hope that Carolina and Mao are the first two. In fact, I'd rather Akiko (or Adelina or Ashley) medal over Yu-Na. Like someone above me said, I respect Yu-Na's skill, but she does not move me like the other skaters do.

I think that Mao and Carolina and Akiko have both shown tremendous artistic growth that Yu-Na has not. Whether that's because of Yu-Na's layoff or natural ability/desire, I don't know. But for me, Akiko, Carolina & Mao are very purposeful in their movements; they use the accents and change their movements according to what they're skating to. It's like the music is coming out of their fingertips. Yu-Na, in my opinion, does not. She's a good performer - better than most - but she's not the artist that Mao and Carolina have become. Her movements seem...generic? put on? shallow? Technically, she's amazing, but I think that this lack of genuine artistry keeps me from really enjoying her skating.

(On another note, Yu-Na's spiral is really quite ugly - and I'm so sick of the David Wilson facestroking choreography).

With the three Japanese girls, Yu-Na, Carolina, Kiira, Ashley, Gracie, Liza, Adelina and Kaitlyn, it will hopefully be a great Worlds competition. It's a very deep field this year.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Mao's swan lake program is beautifully chroegraphed and beautifully performed. Her PCS deserve to be higher here, as do points for her step sequences.

I watched her Liebenstraum program from 4CC's last year again and I liked it just as much. It was beautifully choreographed and performed too, albeit with mistakes. Mao made the same mistakes again this year. If she does it at Worlds, she will leave the door open for Yu Na and perhaps others.
 

YunaBliss

On the Ice
Joined
May 11, 2010
I find Yuna to be infinitely more artistic than Mao or Carolina. Indeed, what sets Yuna apart from her peers is not actually technical skills... it is her artistry and effortless skating.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
It was her first time this season with this difficult program, so it had mistakes. We dont know what will happen at worlds. All I know is that the top 3 ladies are letting the babies known that it is not their turn yet to be world champion. Hey anything can happen

It wasn't her first time. She skated it at the Grand Prix and Grand Prix Final and at Japan Nationals. She is undefeated with it so far. Has she skated it clean yet? I know she didn't at her Grand Prix events.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I find Yuna to be infinitely more artistic than Mao or Carolina. Indeed, what sets Yuna apart from her peers is not actually technical skills... it is her artistry and effortless skating.

As stated above, I completely disagree. Different strokes and all.
 

Ambivalent

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Akiko and Mao were simply magical. Akiko's program is everything that is right about figure skating. I could watch it over and over again! Everything is so meaningful and done to the music so well. So often skating programes are just a sequence of elements, but this was an incredibly cohesive whole. Loved it. I hope she continues to work with Carmelengo.

Mao's footwork is brilliant and I hope she continues to improve. I am really impressed by her ability and desire to improve her skating, despite already being an Olympic medalist & world champion, during very tough personal circumstances.

Finally, since we're discussing Worlds here...I think Carolina, Mao and Yu-Na will be the podium if they skate as they are capable of. That said, after watching 4CCs and rewatching YuNa at her nationals and Carolina's skate at Europeans....I hope that Carolina and Mao are the first two. In fact, I'd rather Akiko (or Adelina or Ashley) medal over Yu-Na. Like someone above me said, I respect Yu-Na's skill, but she does not move me like the other skaters do.

I think that Mao and Carolina and Akiko have both shown tremendous artistic growth that Yu-Na has not. Whether that's because of Yu-Na's layoff or natural ability/desire, I don't know. But for me, Akiko, Carolina & Mao are very purposeful in their movements; they use the accents and change their movements according to what they're skating to. It's like the music is coming out of their fingertips. Yu-Na, in my opinion, does not. She's a good performer - better than most - but she's not the artist that Mao and Carolina have become. Her movements seem...generic? put on? shallow? Technically, she's amazing, but I think that this lack of genuine artistry keeps me from really enjoying her skating.

(On another note, Yu-Na's spiral is really quite ugly - and I'm so sick of the David Wilson facestroking choreography).

With the three Japanese girls, Yu-Na, Carolina, Kiira, Ashley, Gracie, Liza, Adelina and Kaitlyn, it will hopefully be a great Worlds competition. It's a very deep field this year.

It's a matter of personal preference, ultimately. One could easily swap Mao's and Yuna's names in your post and there you have it - different skaters for different people.

For me, Mao and YuNa are just so different artistically. Mao expresses joy like no other, but for some reason I am drawn to Yuna's reserved nature. I don't think it's entirely fair for you to suggest that her artistry is in some way less "genuine" - just different and enjoyed more or less by different people. You don't enjoy it, fine - but many others do.

I recently watched a documentary on the early part of Yuna's life and it featured all her struggles early on - getting adequate practice time, rinks too cold to practice, not being able to get good skating boots. And when I watch some of her earlier performances (and even her Arirang LP) I see a lot of pain and struggle in her expression. Some construe this reserved nature as a lack of artistry; I think it's the opposite. :confused2: I thought her step sequence in her 2011 Worlds performance to Arirang to be the best she has ever done. If that's not purposeful I don't really know what is...
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I recently watched a documentary on the early part of Yuna's life and it featured all her struggles early on - getting adequate practice time, rinks too cold to practice, not being able to get good skating boots. And when I watch some of her earlier performances (and even her Arirang LP) I see a lot of pain and struggle in her expression. Some construe this reserved nature as a lack of artistry; I think it's the opposite. :confused2: I thought her step sequence in her 2011 Worlds performance to Arirang to be the best she has ever done. If that's not purposeful I don't really know what is...

I agree that Yu Na has a very reserved quality in her skating. But whatever it is, I also agree it really worked for her in her Arirang program. Her step sequence in that program was just outstanding. I loved the placement of the spiral. There was just so much to love about that program. I wish she had kept it for this year. She was technically perfect in her long program at Korean Nationals, but so distant. The music cuts don't help.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Well, artistry is subjective. But that's just my impression when I watch her, and others have stated as much in this thread. I never pretended to speak for anyone but myself. I stand by what I say though - I mean, Mao and Carolina, they lately use the music so well, and hit every beat and it just radiates throughout. It's not about them being more expressive, necessarily (I think Yu-Na can be very expressive); but the fact that they express the music in their skating much better. I mean, looking at Yu-Na's Les Mis footwork - it's fairly generic movement that could be any music, but I can't imagine Mao's SP footwork being done to anything else but the music she's skating to. I didn't mean to insult or offend Yu-Na when I said her movement looks coached, but that's what it looks like - kinda forced or shallow.

I think that all skaters go through struggles - Mao's mom's long illness and recent death - so I'm not sure what exactly it has to do with their musicality.
 

Ambivalent

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Well, artistry is subjective. But that's just my impression when I watch her, and others have stated as much in this thread. I never pretended to speak for anyone but myself. I stand by what I say though - I mean, Mao and Carolina, they lately use the music so well, and hit every beat and it just radiates throughout. It's not about them being more expressive, necessarily (I think Yu-Na can be very expressive); but the fact that they express the music in their skating much better. I mean, looking at Yu-Na's Les Mis footwork - it's fairly generic movement that could be any music, but I can't imagine Mao's SP footwork being done to anything else but the music she's skating to. I didn't mean to insult or offend Yu-Na when I said her movement looks coached, but that's what it looks like - kinda forced or shallow.

I think that all skaters go through struggles - Mao's mom's long illness and recent death - so I'm not sure what exactly it has to do with their musicality.

I get that YuNa has never really been your favourite but I think one's choice of words could be more... shall we say, diplomatic in terms of offering your personal tastes and opinions about a skater. For example, calling a spiral "ugly", a skater's artistry not "genuine" - I just think it could have been expressed better and in a less pejorative sense. In addition, there is plenty of purpose to YuNa's movements - sure they might not be to your taste - but there is purpose nonetheless whether we find them appealing or not. I don't find Carolina's Bolero to be particularly interesting, but if her artistry moves you then that's wonderful. :)

I respect your opinion about Yu-Na and I greatly, greatly, greatly admire Mao for all her beautiful qualities, for the record.

I do agree that YuNa's Les Mis does leave a lot to be desired in terms of the music cuts (a bit disjointed, don't you think) and her footwork but hopefully she has worked on those elements. I do think it's too early to say whether her programs this season are good or poor because they have not been skated to its fullest potential (or even against stiff competition).

(As for the portrayal of pain and loss - I do think, for me at least - that it adds a special something to a skater's programs. For that reason Joannie's 2010 Vancouver skates will always rank among my favourites, forever and always).
 
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Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Suzuki had by far the best FS, and deserved to win the overall competition here. I really enjoyed her performance despite a 1A mistake and her flutz being pretty obvious. Well done.
 

yuki

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
It wasn't her first time. She skated it at the Grand Prix and Grand Prix Final and at Japan Nationals. She is undefeated with it so far. Has she skated it clean yet? I know she didn't at her Grand Prix events.

It was her first time attempting this kind of difficulty (3A, 3-3, 2A-3T) in the FS this season. But as usual, people see what they want to see. :rolleye:
 

skatel80

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Wow did I miss something , was yuna competing here? I mean I think she is incredible and all but is it necessary for her to become the focal point in every thread?.....just saying
 

Laughing Man

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Well, I don't care about her score because this 4CC took place in Japan :p

Yeah sure...so Carolina will win all future Intl comps held in Italy and Kaetlyn will win Worlds next month cause they'll have it in Canada, huh? Oh, and I just can't wait for the next major Intl comp in China, cause according to your logic, my dear Zijun will definitely be on top of the podium!

I agree EXCEPT for one thing: Back before the COP system I used to get really ticked off when a skater was given credit for a triple lutz when they were really doing a triple flip. The LBO or RBO is a far more difficult edge to jump from, and the straight line flipping of the edge really made my blood boil. As far as the rest: There are huge and obvious UR's, those obviously need to be dinged. But if you have to watch in slo mo again and again...well, that is absurd.
As far as Mao, Akiko: both short programs were, in my old fashioned judgement: 6.0 After Midori and Kristy, I feel like the skating world went through a long period of mediocrity-five steps backward really-but Yuna and Mao have established a new standard.

I totally respect and understand what you're saying. I'm not in favor of the 6.0 system at all, never was. Even with some rules I'm not so fond of, CoP is still a much better system overall. It made it possible for fans to have more insight and constructive debates which I do think is a very good thing for the sport. The only problem I have is that some people get too caught up with certain rules, which can easily lead them into missing the whole picture of a well done performance. If some prefer to go on playing 'judge' rather than appreciating this sport as one of the audience, fine go ahead. That's only going to take away alot of the pleasures and joys this sport can offer from them.

How do I know? Because I have seen Kaetlyn Osmond skate, and I've also seen Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, Ashley Wagner, Akiko Suzuki, Carolina Kostner, and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva skate. Top 5 isn't a lock for anyone except for Yuna and maybe Carolina. And all five of the above mentioned are head-and-shoulders over Osmond.

I disagree. Top 5 isn't a lock or anyone, period. How many times have we seen the best of skaters suddenly melt down losing wins and dropping from ranks which we predicted were rock solid for them? No skater has a lock for anything however good they were in the past, however good they currently are. Plus there's always room for nice surprises!

It wasn't her first time. She skated it at the Grand Prix and Grand Prix Final and at Japan Nationals. She is undefeated with it so far. Has she skated it clean yet? I know she didn't at her Grand Prix events.

If you're talking only about the music and the basic program, yes, it wasn't her first time. But if you haven't noticed ( :rolleye: ), she dramatically changed her layout this time into a much difficult level than before. So in that sense, it was her first time. Check the protocols if you're not capable of distinguishing jumps by sight.

I get that YuNa has never really been your favourite but I think one's choice of words could be more... shall we say, diplomatic in terms of offering your personal tastes and opinions about a skater. For example, calling a spiral "ugly", a skater's artistry not "genuine" - I just think it could have been expressed better and in a less pejorative sense.

I can't agree more. I hate seeing words like 'ugly' or 'not genuine' used to evaluate any skater. In addition, although I prefer Mao's style rather than Yuna's, I have never ever felt that Yuna lacks artistry. She is totally divine and exciting on the ice with great skills. Whether her performances are moving or not may be a different issue though; that depends alot on preferance and I suppose, favoritism (we all have that don't we?). Still, Yuna is obviously on a higher plane compared to most skaters in both skill and artristry. I find it hard to believe some people have trouble seeing that even if they're not a fan in particular (like myself). However, after seeing her pros for this season, I had to admit I expected a bit more. Yuna isn't the problem, it's just the choreos. As talented as he is, Wilson didn't bring out the best in her this time. No wonder so many people want her Arirang back. I kind of wish she'd work with another choreographer next season...like Camerlengo for instance. But oh well, I'm a Camerlengo freak so I'd recommend most skaters to work with him. Besides, I've seen Yuna perform her new pros only twice this season, so maybe my impressions on them might change at Worlds.

Can't wait for Worlds already! :)
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
yuki said:
It was her first time attempting this kind of difficulty (3A, 3-3, 2A-3T) in the FS this season. But as usual, people see what they want to see.

Isn't it weird? This was a very good competition, yet right after Mao skated, one of the first statements was "Oh, huge - but I think Yuna can beat that! Do others think so too?".
You even get reminded about how Mao won't win against Yuna anyway, or how better Yunas artistry is (stupid question: aren't body lines, tension and stretch a good part of what is called artistry in figure skating?).
Yuna didn't skate here, and this thread is too discuss what happened here at 4CC. There are by far enough threads for people who want to go on a second Yuna vs. Mao battle round.

There was even the funny statement "Mao has seldom done 8-triple programms" :unsure: Maybe I just didn't get the joke, but... hey, what an awful skater Mao is for not doing what no other woman accomplished in history so far, a 8-triple programm.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
There was even the funny statement "Mao has seldom done 8-triple programms" :unsure: Maybe I just didn't get the joke, but...
Did anybody of Ladies ever perform 8-triples FS?
I don't remember that any Lady did it, I believe it is first at FS history.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Is there a chance Akiko keeps this program for Sochi? it may be one of my favs ever. I wish she would skate this to Olys.
 
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