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Thread: 4CC Ladies Free Skate

  1. #331
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport
    How does having a bad back prevent one from developing more stretch and toe point?
    There speaks a person who has never had a bad back.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Thank you sooo much, Mao88.
    Isn't Zijun Li gorgeous? I can't stop watching her, great fluid jumps, flexibility, softness, and such a lyrical quality to her skating. Not to mention great arms and toes. I hope the judges will start to take notice.
    Zijun deserved at least 4th place. She has it all! Just a beautiful skater overall and under marked IMO!

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaterNater
    The feed was Standard Quality and I sort of tuned out halfway through the performance, anyways.
    You missed the best part. The second half is where she (Mao) knocked it out of the park.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    How can you get a positive goe on an under rotated jump (mao). The gold and bronze medalist sure did get a lot of ur's and edge calls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    It's now up to the judges' discretion. GOE rules were relaxed to allow for it. Only falls have to be in the negative (for the free skate).
    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Sorry, I didn't mean to single them out for the edge calls but for the UR's. My point was that I was surprised you can get a positive goe for a ur. Intuitively one would not think that to be the case. I didn't know the rule about it. Personally I think the tech call should rule and the computer program change any positive goes in these cases to 0. Even that is not the best solution as the jump really should get some negative goe. What is the point of having a tech caller if he is going to be overridden in this manner. If the referee thinks his call should be reversed that is another matter.
    Not really a "rule." GOE goes by bulletpoints.

    The way that Axel was performed and landed, it should not have gotten positive GOE. There was a two foot landing and turns on the landing, which should have put the GOE in the negative pretty much automatically.

    Criteria for GOE on a Jump Element:

    FOR + 1 : 2 bullets FOR + 2 : 4 bullets FOR + 3 : 6 or more bullets

    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure
    The only thing about that Triple Axel that was perhaps worthy of being mentioned is #4. She Two footed the jump and turned out, so #5, #6, #7 is out. There is no Delay in rotation, so #3 is out. Maybe a judge can try to convince themselves that #8 was met (that would give her +1 GOE before deductions), but there were no steps into the jump and it was telegraphed (which is actually a GOE Deduction), so #1 and #2 is out of the question. She could at most get +1 GOE for the jump. Even if she was to land it well the most I could see her getting is +2 GOE.

    GOE Deductions for jumps!

    Under-rotated (sign < ) -1 to -2
    Weak landing (bad pos./wrong edge/scratching etc) -1 to -2
    Long preparation -1 to -2
    Touch down with one hand or free foot -1
    Landing on two feet in a jump -3
    Stepping out of landing in a jump -2 to -3
    No explanation is needed. The other poster was right ot question the GOE on the jump. Just the landing errors she had were enough to give her an automatic at least -2 GOE on that jump.

    The reason why this scoring system sucks as much as 6.0 is because the judges are allowed to manipulate PCS and GOE in a way that makes it function (basically) equivalent to the old system. Only difference is, it has forced most skaters to come up, technically compared to back then. I'm not saying the scores were manipulated, Asada's (rightful) lead after the short program gave her a lot of room to go for things she likely would have left out had it been closer, so there's nothing wrong with her going for the 3A and 3/3 - that was a good decision, IMO, even if she lost points to URs on them. However, the judges inability to score the elements correctly (on a fairly consistent basis, mind you) is a bit troublesome - and they seem to intentionally keep the GOE of other skaters down by comparison.

    P.S. Suzuki has some of the best landing positions/run-out that I've ever seen. I'm really a sucker for that :-P
    Last edited by SkateNater; 02-10-2013 at 01:39 PM.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Christina will be taking a year off from college this coming season. Christina is 18; Gracie 17.
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    very nice. she looks really determined to make it to Sochi
    and I think she can if she continues to do what she's doing. she has all the pieces to be successful internationally. i'm not saying that she'll challenge Mao and Yuna, but she's developing into one of the most complete ladies skaters the US has had in quite some time.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    So Gao beat Gold. I guess Gold-flation is only in the U.S. not international...
    Gold also bombed, while Gao was relatively clean, so I'm failing to see your point...

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateNater View Post
    Not really a "rule." GOE goes by bulletpoints.

    The way that Axel was performed and landed, it should not have gotten positive GOE. There was a two foot landing and turns on the landing, which should have put the GOE in the negative pretty much automatically.

    No explanation is needed. The other poster was right ot question the GOE on the jump. Just the landing errors she had were enough to give her an automatic at least -2 GOE on that jump.
    Protocols: http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc..._FS_Scores.pdf

    The GOE that she got for the 3A was not only not positive, but -2.43. The previous poster was questioning the positive GOE she got on her 2A+3T< combo (which was an astonishing +0.07 ).

    Also: with all the underrotation calls Mao received, she still had the greatest base value of all the ladies, 59.54 (Zijun Li came close with 57.34). She attempted an 8-triple program with 3A, 3F-3Lo and 2A-3T - that is insane technical content and obviously it didn't work out as planned, but it still was a extremely gutsy of her to attempt it. She was appropriately dinged for her mistakes (for example, the 3A< with negative GOE only got her 3.57 points). I honestly fail to understand all the criticism that she got in this thread - for some people it's as if Mao can do no right.
    Last edited by yuki; 02-10-2013 at 01:47 PM.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Gold also bombed, while Gao was relatively clean, so I'm failing to see your point...
    Yea if Gold hits her programs she's probably 10+ points ahead of Gao. If Gao hits her programs at worlds, she's probably still going to struggle to get in the top 10 with the kind of PCS they're going to hand out to her there added to her technical deficiencies compared to Gold when she's on.

  9. #339
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    Welcome, aero. Thanks for joining us.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Im late but wow, Congrats to Mao, she's back !

    Im shocked Osmond didnt get overscored, but then again this wasnt held in Canada
    but I am almost certain even with 2 falls, Osmond will be in Top 5 at Worlds as it i will be held on home ground and the inflation will be back

    sad for Gracie


    Not unless Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Ashley Wagner, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, and Akiko Suzuki all crash and burn. You don't finish in the Top 5 at the World Championships with 2 falls, regardless of where it's held. Period.

    For comparison, Mao fell ONCE at last year's Worlds and ended up sixth.
    Last edited by ForeverFish; 02-10-2013 at 01:49 PM.

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki View Post
    Protocols: http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc..._FS_Scores.pdf

    The GOE that she got for the 3A was not only not positive, but -2.43. The previous poster was questioning the positive GOE she got on her 2A+3T< combo (which was an astonishing +0.07 ).
    UR sign is only -1 to -2 GOE so she likely only got -1 for it since it wasn't a severe UR. Also, it's a combination and the DA was more than fine. The GOE on that element seems in line. It shouldn't have been hugely positive, but the deduction has some variance built in so the other qualities of the jump pass made up for it. The DA in that combo was actually first rate.

    Whoever gave her +2 for that pass was smoking the same thing the judge who gave Suzuki +2 for her Flutz was smoking.

    I misread a little. Thanks.
    Last edited by SkateNater; 02-10-2013 at 01:46 PM.

  12. #342
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    Aww, too bad nerves seem ot have gotten to Osmond. Her season up to this point has been so good it has been sort of unreal. I still loved her Carmen though. I hope she takes home the lesson she has learned here at 4CC and be better mentally prepared for Worlds! She has so much potential!

    Great job Zijun! She really seems to have the mental toughness and competitive spirit necessary to be succeeding at the top level. Great technical content, but I really hope she'd work with a dance instructor to improve the quality of her movement and carriage. She has some lovely qualities, but there just seems to be a general lack of tension throughout and she still comes across rathe powerless compared to the other top level skaters. Until she works on the core strength her skating will always appear a little less impressive than it could've other wise been and her PCS will stagnate.
    Last edited by shine; 02-10-2013 at 01:48 PM.

  13. #343
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    Does anyone get the vibe that "sometimes too much is too much" with regard to Osmond's programs? She tries to do way too much in her program, like those junior skaters who pop up with a program that looks like a footwork sequence in an attempt to milk the code for all the points they can get. I think she has good qualities, but sometimes less is more and her programs look rather frantic to me (LP more so than SP).

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post


    Not unless Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Ashley Wagner, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, and Akiko Suzuki all crash and burn. You don't finish in the Top 5 at the World Championships with 2 falls, regardless of where it's held. Period.

    For comparison, Mao fell ONCE at last year's Worlds and ended up sixth.
    how do you know ? Osmond got 115+ in Canadian soil at SC with 1 fall, Worlds generally will get inflated as its near end of the season
    Osmond with 2 falls will probably score 118+ in LP at London, though its shwing Osmond isnt taht much of nerves of steel as others have said
    she can implode too but she is lucky its home soil so Top 5 is lock for her

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post


    Not unless Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Ashley Wagner, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, and Akiko Suzuki all crash and burn. You don't finish in the Top 5 at the World Championships with 2 falls, regardless of where it's held. Period.

    For comparison, Mao fell ONCE at last year's Worlds and ended up sixth.
    Yes, but Mao also popped (doubled or singled) a lot of jumps in the FS, which killed her base value (and was ultimately more costly for her than falling on rotated triples).

    I don't think that Kaetlyn will be top 5 at worlds, but top 10 is very doable for her as long as she doesn't implode in the FS, as her SP has been quite good all season.

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