4CC Ladies Free Skate | Page 23 | Golden Skate

4CC Ladies Free Skate

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
Because a Grand Prix win, a Nebelhorn win, flawless skates at the Skate Canada Challenge, and earning her first Canadian title is sub-expectation? What next, you expect her to get rid of him if she doesn't win Worlds? :laugh: She ain't leaving Ravi any time soon. They've put together a miraculous season so far, and 4CC was her first bad competition. I anticipate her being ready for Worlds.

I think Kaetlyn, like Gracie, is letting the hype get to her a little bit. Hopefully they'll both calm down by Worlds. Between the two though I think Osmond has the better overall package.

I don't think we should start panicking just yet, it's her first season on the senior level, now if she's like this next season may we should start panicking.

I'm not panicking. I'm just resigned to the fact that we're not going to have 3 spots for the Olympics and a talented skater is going to be left back home-again.

Gracie would be fine at worlds if it were a nonolympic deciding year. But you don't practice at Worlds. Thus you'll hear a lot of backlash from US fans. Send Gao as she seems most consistent. Only true meltdown at GPF. Hope I don't jinx myself.

^^^
This.


^^^
And This. Le Sigh.. We're going to be so screwed at Worlds. :disapp:

Gracie would be fine at worlds if it were a nonolympic deciding year. But you don't practice at Worlds. Thus you'll hear a lot of backlash from US fans. Send Gao as she seems most consistent. Only true meltdown at GPF. Hope I don't jinx myself.

Agreed.

People are commenting on her performances because she is a member of the US World Team in a season when it is critical to perform well in order to secure spots for the Olympics. And she is a horrible competitor. She melts down under pressure. So, if she delivers her usual messy programs at Worlds, she will be costing another skater a chance to skate in the Olympic games.

This is what is making me sick to my stomache. I don't want to hear from the 'the U.S. just isn't good enough for 3 spots' brigade. BS. Imo we were good enough in 2009 but the WRONG SKATER was sent. Same thing happened in 2011. Same thing happened in 2012 and the same thing is happening again in 2013. They're sending the hyped up skater with political clout behind her.

How well does the U.S. need to do to at least retain 2 spots for the Olympics? I'm so upset I feel even THAT is endangered.

Definitely think Christina should be sent to worlds over gold

ITA but it's not going to happen. Christina is only an alternate and only an injury Heaven-forbid is going to cause either Wagner or Gold to step down.

The USFS has shot itself in the foot again. This is 2011 all over again.

I understand your concern but who else would you have picked for the second spot in this important year. Of course some one suggested we should send courtney hicks to worlds instead of gracie and I was like ...... seriously!? We could send Gao but she doesn't have very difficult content in her LP.

Christina has more than enough content to place top 10 at Worlds if she hits both her programs well. She is also liked by the international judges as one can see by her PCS scores even with a fall. She's been the most consistent of all the Americans this year and it's foolish not to send her to Worlds. I'm hoping Gracie will keep her nerves intact but it's not happening. And her flat-faced expression in her programs will do her no favors against the firepower of the Russians, Japanese, Yuna, and Kostner. Imo Christina has far better artistry and expression.

Difficult content doesn't matter if you can't execute it...

Thank you!

But pre Olympics worlds is a risky place for her to test her nerves....

Yes it is. I just hope against hope that Gracie proves me dead wrong and skates lights out at Worlds-along with Ashley who has yet to debut a 3-3 in her programs.

Frankly I don't adore Christina's skating and I can see why she gets lost in the shuffle. However if we are talking about making the world team and earning spots, why would you want to gamble on a skater who frankly isn't necessarily ready for prime time. I get wanting to put Gold out there for Sochi but this decision may cost us three spots. And lets not get into Wagner's meltdowns.

The point of the matter is if you base it on the overall skating right now Gao got royally screwed by the US judges.

This. In a nutshell.

So, if Gold takes 4C as a learning experience (this WAS only her 5th Senior International event and the first one where she met up head to head with the likes of Asada; she's still working through these things for the first time) and has a good skate at Worlds (SP with one less mistake - say doesn't put a hand down on the 3Lz but turns out of the 3+3, so around a 62-65 range and a LP with only one error, say the 3Lo <, fall so about 122-5) and scores lower than if she was totally lights out (so say in the 184-190 range), which is a much higher score than Gao's potential, what will you all say? I think a completely clean Gao is about 180-2 MAX with her current layouts and PCS looking at her score here. Don't forget, Nationals was just two weeks ago and there will be four weeks until Worlds practices start...there's time to work through whatever it was that ended up not being her best. Gao KNEW her season was over here and could go FULL out with a rest coming up...

Gao isn't going to Worlds so there's no way of knowing how she would've been scored had she skated clean. Gracie's POTENTIAL scores are high but she keeps making glaring mistakes in either one or the other of her programs. If she bombs the SP at Worlds she's going to get buried. Compared to Gao, she's been the more inconsistent of the two but thanks to politics she was held up high enough that she's on the World team over a more imo deserving skater. Christina's placement at 4CC, well over Gold, who bombed yet again, and Agnes who bombed even worse is at least some small redemption for her.
Except that, to get to Worlds, Gao needed to beat Gold at US Nationals. And not only did she fail to do so, she was also defeated by Agnes Zawadzki and Courtney Hicks in her first senior Nationals.

Gold's potential is in the 180-190 range--only Yuna Kim and Mao Asada can match her technical content. Gao would have to be very, very lucky to break 180.

Gao didn't 'fail' to beat Gold, Hicks, or Agnes at Nationals. She was lowballed by the judges, and the others ahead of her, especially Gracie and Agnes received higher than deserved marks from the U.S. judges to keep her down in 5th. Gold was held up in the SP, obsurdly so, and her sky-high marks in the FS were designed to make it near impossible for anyone other than Wagner to beat her. Same with Agnes. I'm glad the international judges have appreciated Christina much more, and she's beaten her compatriots without the politics that keeps her down in her own country.

I think Mao, and Akiko were amazing. Mao had mistakes but kudos to her for trying an 8 jump FS! Murakami-I could take her or leave her. Her programs just left me cold. I preferred Lijun Li and Christina Gao's programs over her and would have been happy if either one of those ladies had taken the bronze instead of Murakami.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Gao didn't 'fail' to beat Gold, Hicks, or Agnes at Nationals. She was lowballed by the judges, and the others ahead of her, especially Gracie and Agnes received higher than deserved marks from the U.S. judges to keep her down in 5th. Gold was held up in the SP, obsurdly so, and her sky-high marks in the FS were designed to make it near impossible for anyone other than Wagner to beat her. Same with Agnes. I'm glad the international judges have appreciated Christina much more, and she's beaten her compatriots without the politics that keeps her down in her own country.

You may be right about the politics involved with Wagner, Gold, and Zawadzki, but I fail to see how the US would gain anything by pushing Hicks, the newbie, onto the podium over Gao. A few mistakes along the way made her miss the pewter medal, and she knows it.

Actually, have you compared the scores received by Gao and Gold on the GP circuit? Even sloppy, Gold's CoR score was higher than that of Gao's near-flawless performance on home ice. At 4CC, a great Gao beat a disastrous Gold. No surprise. What Gold has proven is that she can squeeze into the Top 6 at a major international competition even with significant falters, whereas the same mistakes from Gao would have taken her permanently out of contention.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
I agree that Kaetlyn should have higher PCS than Gao or Gold, but I still think she is a notch behind someone like Adelina. She does a LOT of transitions and should score well in that, but she does so many that sometimes the quality of her line is impacted. Certain moves she does also look sloppy, for example comparing her illusion spin to Adelina's and you see a big differnce in the line they maintain. I'm so happy to see Kaetlyn attempt the difficult choreography because her execution of it will only get better with time.

Then deduct her on the PE somewhat for the weak posture and lines but mark her higher than anybody else for things like TR or CH.

That's what's so frustrating. They system is set-up decently, the judges just aren't using it.

How many more sub expectation performances from Kaetlyn before she changes coaches?

She's not a robot. And she seems very happy with her coach.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I agree that Kaetlyn should have higher PCS than Gao or Gold, but I still think she is a notch behind someone like Adelina. She does a LOT of transitions and should score well in that, but she does so many that sometimes the quality of her line is impacted. Certain moves she does also look sloppy, for example comparing her illusion spin to Adelina's and you see a big differnce in the line they maintain. I'm so happy to see Kaetlyn attempt the difficult choreography because her execution of it will only get better with time.

I agree with this. I really respect her and her team for putting together detailed programs like the ones she has right from the very start. I love that she's not a "wimp" like so many other ladies whose programs consist of the simplest "transitions" or where the choreography is mostly in the upper body. If this is what she's doing now, you can be pretty sure that she'll only get better with time. And really, all she needs is time to learn to finish off her moves more, to mature in her interpretation, and present her programs with even more authenticity. She has all the ingredients already. And it's ridiculous to think that she sholud leave her coach. She has come so far in all aspects over the last year and the programs they've put together for this year are just wonderful.
 
Last edited:

Ilvskating

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
congratulations to Mao! So happy for her! great to see the joy comes back.

I feel Zijun Li was seriously underscored inPCS. her FS was so lovely but she only got the seventh or eighth PCS. should be a lot higher. I think Kanoko? Was way overscored.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Is it wise for Mao to be playing with her jump layout this close to Worlds?

How many more sub expectation performances from Kaetlyn before she changes coaches?

Huh she had two bad skates and even then she is just introducing herself to the competitive world. Aren't we panicking ab it too soon.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Am I the only one who thinks that Li was extremely underscored in PCS?? Gao, Zawadzki, even Gold received a higher PCS!! :disapp: She deserved something around 57-58 for me!
 

Ilvskating

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Am I the only one who thinks that Li was extremely underscored in PCS?? Gao, Zawadzki, even Gold received a higher PCS!! :disapp: She deserved something around 57-58 for me!

Definitely not! I already expressed my feeling and I'm glad we feel the same way. Li deserved much higher pcs!
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Is it wise for Mao to be playing with her jump layout this close to Worlds?

How many more sub expectation performances from Kaetlyn before she changes coaches?

Mao - She really needed to add the difficulty she showed at 4CC if she hopes to finish any better than 3rd at Worlds. Carolina now does all the triples through the lutz and Yuna has 3-3s planned in the short and long. Both can match (or surpass) Mao on PCS so Mao has to match these ladies on TES.

Kaetlyn - I think the bigger problem is people's expectations and not her coaching situation. A lot of great skaters have good early results before going through some shaky results. She is now burdened with a bit more expectation than before so she has to learn to deal with that like other great skaters in the past. She will, but it is unreasonable to expect she wouldn't have a rough patch.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
So, Kaetlyn can go through a rough patch, but Gracie can't on the learning curve? Can we say double standard, folks?:disapp:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
So, Kaetlyn can go through a rough patch, but Gracie can't on the learning curve? Can we say double standard, folks?:disapp:

agreed and to think Gracie is better than Osmond
Gracie has the IT factor, the looks, huge and difficult jumps
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
To be fair, Gracie's pressure is far greater than Osmond's, in bringing back 3 spots. It's not like people are asking Osmond to place in the top 2 so that Canada can have three spots.

Gracie has not just harder jumps but some of the best jumps. However, consistency goes to Osmond, IMO. I think people are being harder on Gracie because she's had inconsistencies this season (and thus they're freaking out about Worlds) whereas this has been Osmond's first bad competition.
 

starryxskies

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
So, Kaetlyn can go through a rough patch, but Gracie can't on the learning curve? Can we say double standard, folks?:disapp:

Canada doesn't have a "better alternative" to Kaetlyn in either technicality or consistency. Up till 4CC, she's been consistent. The US definitely has better alternatives to Gracie in terms of consistency - which is a better method of risking taking if they want 3 spots back.

It's not a double standard if they both are in completely different situations.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Am I the only one who thinks that Li was extremely underscored in PCS?? Gao, Zawadzki, even Gold received a higher PCS!! :disapp: She deserved something around 57-58 for me!

I would have given her (overall) higher PCS over Gold and Zawadski.

Gracie is better than Osmond in jumps but not everything else (imo) and I'm not a fan of either.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
Am I the only one who thinks that Li was extremely underscored in PCS?? Gao, Zawadzki, even Gold received a higher PCS!! :disapp: She deserved something around 57-58 for me!

Not only you.

I believe, Li deserves bronse medal and podium at 4CC.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Mao - She really needed to add the difficulty she showed at 4CC if she hopes to finish any better than 3rd at Worlds. Carolina now does all the triples through the lutz and Yuna has 3-3s planned in the short and long. Both can match (or surpass) Mao on PCS so Mao has to match these ladies on TES.

Kaetlyn - I think the bigger problem is people's expectations and not her coaching situation. A lot of great skaters have good early results before going through some shaky results. She is now burdened with a bit more expectation than before so she has to learn to deal with that like other great skaters in the past. She will, but it is unreasonable to expect she wouldn't have a rough patch.
If carolina skates the way she did at euros the match for gold will be asada vs kim assuming mao skates her amazing short program the way she did at 4cc. But anything can happen it is after all ice
 
Top