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Thread: 4CC Ladies Free Skate

  1. #421
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    [QUOTE=Laughing Man;711790]

    If you're talking only about the music and the basic program, yes, it wasn't her first time. But if you haven't noticed ( ), she dramatically changed her layout this time into a much difficult level than before. So in that sense, it was her first time. Check the protocols if you're not capable of distinguishing jumps by sight.

    /QUOTE]

    Of course she upped her difficulty--it was obvious, even to me! But it is the same program, basically, with some of the same mistakes--like doubling the salchow. And as noted, her 3-axel does not appear to be a money jump for her this year any more than last year. I like Mao's artistry and admire her overall skating very much, but I don't understand all the gushing over a program that had a lot of mistakes that are the same mistakes Mao has made in the past. Just trying to keep it real.

  2. #422
    The Comeback Kid Minze2001's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jenaj;711927]
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughing Man View Post

    If you're talking only about the music and the basic program, yes, it wasn't her first time. But if you haven't noticed ( ), she dramatically changed her layout this time into a much difficult level than before. So in that sense, it was her first time. Check the protocols if you're not capable of distinguishing jumps by sight.

    /QUOTE]

    Of course she upped her difficulty--it was obvious, even to me! But it is the same program, basically, with some of the same mistakes--like doubling the salchow. And as noted, her 3-axel does not appear to be a money jump for her this year any more than last year. I like Mao's artistry and admire her overall skating very much, but I don't understand all the gushing over a program that had a lot of mistakes that are the same mistakes Mao has made in the past. Just trying to keep it real.
    Because some of us dont nitpick all of the mistakes of skaters, to make the same point over and over. Also, we admire someone for improving and trying to become a better skater.

  3. #423
    Custom Title yuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Of course she upped her difficulty--it was obvious, even to me! But it is the same program, basically, with some of the same mistakes--like doubling the salchow. And as noted, her 3-axel does not appear to be a money jump for her this year any more than last year. I like Mao's artistry and admire her overall skating very much, but I don't understand all the gushing over a program that had a lot of mistakes that are the same mistakes Mao has made in the past. Just trying to keep it real.
    It seems to me that you're criticizing her just for the sake of it. She hasn't attempted the 3A at all this season until 4CC and this was the first 3F-3Lo she tried in competition in I can't even remember how many years. The difficulty of this program is so high compared with what she had before (and especially considering what she showed at Japan Nats just 1 1/2 months ago), it was to be expected that she'll make mistakes. But at least she went for it and this is why I am thrilled for her.

    And one more thing: you're not "keeping it real" - you're basically just insulting her fans by saying "yeah, she won, but she had mistakes, so I don't get what the big deal is". The people who were enthusiastic about her FS are not so deluded as to not be aware that she made mistakes, but maybe they found some other things to admire about her skate, for instance the fact that she actually went for an 8 triple program. Obviously, this is not the case with you.
    Last edited by yuki; 02-11-2013 at 12:50 PM.

  4. #424
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj
    ...but I don't understand all the gushing over a program that had a lot of mistakes that are the same mistakes Mao has made in the past. Just trying to keep it real.
    And when did Mao attempt the 3F-3Lo last time again?
    You don't need to agree with this, but there's nothing bad if people are excited and happy for Mao since she's made a huge step since japanese nationals and landed a ratified 3A for the first time since 2 years.
    If you don't see any of that, than that's rather your problem - you might aswell just go on and convince yourself she was overscored and say that she won't win worlds anyway

  5. #425
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    Her LP this season has always been nice to watch, but the lack of technical content was what was lacking. Sure, she made mistakes, and in fact landed only 4 clean triples. This was not a good technical performance at all, but the will to put out a technically demanding skate was there. I give her credit for upping her game, when she could have played it safe after that fantastic SP. Her 3-3 was a good attempt and her 2A-3T was almost fully rotated. I hope she can take away three things - renewed confidence in her 3A, and the knowledge that she can really build a practically insurmountable lead on her competition if she goes for the 3A in the SP, and her FS can theoretically be done with all that difficulty.

    The level of her jumping was finally back (well, closer) to her Vancouver days, and I hope she doesn't back off. Like I said, hopefully this pushes other skaters as well to try for harder SPs and harder LP jump layouts.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    And when did Mao attempt the 3F-3Lo last time again?
    2008? She certainly deserved a high score--her PCS alone is well-deserved and would put her near the top. But I will be more impressed when she actually lands these jumps.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    And when did Mao attempt the 3F-3Lo last time again?
    It actually was Worlds 2009 SP! However, I've watched her FS video many times, and I'm sure that the 2A+3T was clean, and so was the axel; the only UR jump was the 3-3... The judging has been pretty harsh with Mao in this competition, I think: with a generous panel, she would have scored around 210 I think!

  8. #428
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT
    It actually was Worlds 2009 SP! However, I've watched her FS video many times, and I'm sure that the 2A+3T was clean, and so was the axel; the only UR jump was the 3-3... The judging has been pretty harsh with Mao in this competition, I think: with a generous panel, she would have scored around 210 I think!
    So about 4 years ago
    Her steps were "just" level 3 too, that's another rather strict call. And I think you're right, 3A and 2A-3T looked clean to me too.
    In the end, it doesn't matter. Mao knows now that this tough layout is worth it and that she can manage it without letting go of her performance. So we'll see at worlds if she can get it cleaner until then

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by willdu View Post
    Good bye 3 olympic berths! :( Gracie... you have some work to do before worlds. Should've just sent Mirai and Caroline to 4CC. We probably would've landed more jumps. :( Poor US ladies.
    It's like Nagasu 2011 4CCs all over again. I think they should've sent Nagasu and Hicks along with Gao who was the best American here. Oh well. It's done.

    My expectations are very low for Worlds. Should've been Wagner and Gao, not Gold on the World team. Nothing's going to change my mind on that. Gao is the most consistent skater overall this year. And she proved it again here, beating Gracie and Agnes as well soundly.

  10. #430
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    I am punching the table reading the protocols again. :P

    So Asada underrotated the 3axel by more than 1/4 (-1 to -2), landed on two feet (-3) and overrotated the jump (-2 to -3). So all together, we get a deduction of -6 to -8 yet 5 judges have her a -2. That just isn't possible. Even if you thought that the jump was of +3 quality (which it wasn't because the entry was long and the landing didn't work at all), you'd still have to give her -3 because of all of the deductions, which are cumulative. And there's other examples of judges failing on this in the protocols as well (like two -2s for Ami Parekh's 3salchow which was <, step out and hand down).

    I am really surprised that Tarasova (who seems to be getting more and more senile lately :P) has managed to come up with a program as good as this. Probably the best FS Mao has had to date. A lot of detail in the choreography and her soft movements fit the music really well.

    I don't understand Gao's PCS at all. Her basics aren't great and are weaker than those of most of the skaters who skated in the last two groups. Her programs were quite generic and FS in particular was Max Aaron territory. She would have those looooong entries into the jumps where her arms were just hanging down and she was totally ignoring the music and if you turned it off, you would never guess she was skating to a tango. 7s for this? Seriously?

    It's even more annoying when you consider how hosed Osmond got again. I don't think there is any female skater this season, who has a program more complex than hers (if there is, please show it to me! ). There are no empty spots at all, there's constant detailed upper body movement throughout, transitions into most of the elements and the element layout on the ice is great. One of few skaters who doesn't plant her jumps in the same spots at the either end of the rink. But she didn't even get all 7s and her PCS were lower than both Gold's and Gao's, which is totally ridiculous.

    It's just so unfair because at the end of the day, why bother? Why bother having a really difficult program when all that matters to the judges is whether you wow them or not? Yes, her jumps were a bit of a struggle but jumps are jumps and PCS are PCS. Skating in the penultimate group has really harmed her, I think (most of the judges still don't "know" her).

    A similar story with Zawadzki. She skated with a lot of speed and power and whilst her choreography was nowhere near as good as Osmond's, it was better than most. There were some lovely in-character connecting movements, the program flowed really well, she presented it beautifully. But she also got much lower PCS than Gold and Gao who both have loads of work to do on the second mark.

    Lower down the rankings you have Chantelle Kerry who gave the performance of the evening IMO. Soft kneebend, moved lightly over the ice, her movements were beautifully extended and she had an absolutely stunning opening to her program. She did those beautifully extended moves in the field covering the whole length of the ice surface straight into a solid 2axel with good flow out (which got only one +2 and two 0s...). Did she get rewarded for all that? NOPE. Because she doesn't have the difficult jumps and because she skated early.

    What I see here is two things:
    - jumps having a huge influence over PCS scores
    - starting order having a substantial influence over PCS scores

    And it's crap.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 02-11-2013 at 03:09 PM.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    My expectations are very low for Worlds. Should've been Wagner and Gao, not Gold on the World team.
    It's yet another example where USFS has totally failed by not waiting until the 4CC results.

    Gao has comfortably beaten Gold and she should be going to Worlds.

    Especially given Gold hasn't been consistent all season. Even at US Nationals she had one good program and one bad one.

  12. #432
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    So, if Gold takes 4C as a learning experience (this WAS only her 5th Senior International event and the first one where she met up head to head with the likes of Asada; she's still working through these things for the first time) and has a good skate at Worlds (SP with one less mistake - say doesn't put a hand down on the 3Lz but turns out of the 3+3, so around a 62-65 range and a LP with only one error, say the 3Lo <, fall so about 122-5) and scores lower than if she was totally lights out (so say in the 184-190 range), which is a much higher score than Gao's potential, what will you all say? I think a completely clean Gao is about 180-2 MAX with her current layouts and PCS looking at her score here. Don't forget, Nationals was just two weeks ago and there will be four weeks until Worlds practices start...there's time to work through whatever it was that ended up not being her best. Gao KNEW her season was over here and could go FULL out with a rest coming up...

  13. #433
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    If Gold skates two clean programs at Worlds, she can medal.

    The problem is, at all of her international competitions so far this season, both on the ice and in the K&C, she looked like an emotional wreck who is barely holding it together.

    She's under a huge amount of pressure and I don't think she's dealing with it too well. It might be a case of too much, too soon.

    I fear she will implode at Worlds.

    Is she working with a sport psychologist?

  14. #434
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    I'm really happy for Mao. Even tho she had the URs, I'm glad she actually went for her jumps. I'm tired of the watered down programs of the women the last couple years.
    I'm not a huge fan of Suzuki. I think if she didn't skate so fast and have nice step sequences, i would think nothing of her. She always skates w/ the same plastered smile on her face. It's like, learn a different facial expression already.
    I'm bummed that Gold didn't have a better competition but I'm still glad that she's the one the US is sending to Worlds. Gold is still a bit unproven. I think a lot of the other US ladies are proven to be incapable. (Wagner excluded). I think Gao is a pretty good jumper. Wish she'd bring back her 3F 3T. And just continue to exude and express herself. Like many say, she's understated. I think too understated. Also fix your posture, lady.
    Caro is the defending world champ, but posters keep talking like she's super consistent and ready to deliver consistent 3 Lz and other difficult jumps automatically. She hasn't yet proven she can sustain her level like Mao and Yuna.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    It's even more annoying when you consider how hosed Osmond got again. I don't think there is any female skater this season, who has a program more complex than hers (if there is, please show it to me! ). There are no empty spots at all, there's constant detailed upper body movement throughout, transitions into most of the elements and the element layout on the ice is great. One of few skaters who doesn't plant her jumps in the same spots at the either end of the rink. But she didn't even get all 7s and her PCS were lower than both Gold's and Gao's, which is totally ridiculous.
    I agree that Kaetlyn should have higher PCS than Gao or Gold, but I still think she is a notch behind someone like Adelina. She does a LOT of transitions and should score well in that, but she does so many that sometimes the quality of her line is impacted. Certain moves she does also look sloppy, for example comparing her illusion spin to Adelina's and you see a big differnce in the line they maintain. I'm so happy to see Kaetlyn attempt the difficult choreography because her execution of it will only get better with time.

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