4CC Ladies Free Skate

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Caro is the defending world champ, but posters keep talking like she's super consistent and ready to deliver consistent 3 Lz and other difficult jumps automatically. She hasn't yet proven she can sustain her level like Mao and Yuna.

I think it's great that Mao and Yu Na are putting the heat on her and I'm very curious to see how she responds technically. There are reports of her trying 3F-3T and 3Z-3T and it looks like she might need it. Although her Bolero is being well received by the judges so that could alleviate some of the pressure to up her technical game. I wouldn't say she's super consistent with her only good competition (technically speaking) being Italian Nationals. Euros she was rather fortunate to get the win. One would have to imagine Mao would have beaten her with this 4CC performance, certainly in the SP and arguably in the FS.

[Icey]

Is it wise for Mao to be playing with her jump layout this close to Worlds?

How many more sub expectation performances from Kaetlyn before she changes coaches?

[ForeverFish]

It's yet another example where USFS has totally failed by not waiting until the 4CC results.

Gao has comfortably beaten Gold and she should be going to Worlds.

Especially given Gold hasn't been consistent all season. Even at US Nationals she had one good program and one bad one.

Except that, to get to Worlds, Gao needed to beat Gold at US Nationals. And not only did she fail to do so, she was also defeated by Agnes Zawadzki and Courtney Hicks in her first senior Nationals.

Gold's potential is in the 180-190 range--only Yuna Kim and Mao Asada can match her technical content. Gao would have to be very, very lucky to break 180.

[Macassar88]

One of the Eurosport guys said that Zijun Li could be a Sochi medalist.

Is that realistic?

Maybe if she were from a bigger singles fed.
If she wants to be taken seriously, she needs to do a 3F-3T in the SP. That way she can have a bigger TES which should help her get into a later group at worlds. But I think that with her, the best is yet to come in the 2015-2018 quad. She will have grown up a bit and maybe have even nicer lines! She's so talented!

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Is it wise for Mao to be playing with her jump layout this close to Worlds?

How many more sub expectation performances from Kaetlyn before she changes coaches?

Because a Grand Prix win, a Nebelhorn win, flawless skates at the Skate Canada Challenge, and earning her first Canadian title is sub-expectation? What next, you expect her to get rid of him if she doesn't win Worlds? She ain't leaving Ravi any time soon. They've put together a miraculous season so far, and 4CC was her first bad competition. I anticipate her being ready for Worlds.

[Sasha'sSpins]

Because a Grand Prix win, a Nebelhorn win, flawless skates at the Skate Canada Challenge, and earning her first Canadian title is sub-expectation? What next, you expect her to get rid of him if she doesn't win Worlds? She ain't leaving Ravi any time soon. They've put together a miraculous season so far, and 4CC was her first bad competition. I anticipate her being ready for Worlds.

I think Kaetlyn, like Gracie, is letting the hype get to her a little bit. Hopefully they'll both calm down by Worlds. Between the two though I think Osmond has the better overall package.

I don't think we should start panicking just yet, it's her first season on the senior level, now if she's like this next season may we should start panicking.

I'm not panicking. I'm just resigned to the fact that we're not going to have 3 spots for the Olympics and a talented skater is going to be left back home-again.

Gracie would be fine at worlds if it were a nonolympic deciding year. But you don't practice at Worlds. Thus you'll hear a lot of backlash from US fans. Send Gao as she seems most consistent. Only true meltdown at GPF. Hope I don't jinx myself.

^^^
This.

fack

^^^
And This. Le Sigh.. We're going to be so screwed at Worlds.

Gracie would be fine at worlds if it were a nonolympic deciding year. But you don't practice at Worlds. Thus you'll hear a lot of backlash from US fans. Send Gao as she seems most consistent. Only true meltdown at GPF. Hope I don't jinx myself.

Agreed.

People are commenting on her performances because she is a member of the US World Team in a season when it is critical to perform well in order to secure spots for the Olympics. And she is a horrible competitor. She melts down under pressure. So, if she delivers her usual messy programs at Worlds, she will be costing another skater a chance to skate in the Olympic games.

This is what is making me sick to my stomache. I don't want to hear from the 'the U.S. just isn't good enough for 3 spots' brigade. BS. Imo we were good enough in 2009 but the WRONG SKATER was sent. Same thing happened in 2011. Same thing happened in 2012 and the same thing is happening again in 2013. They're sending the hyped up skater with political clout behind her.

How well does the U.S. need to do to at least retain 2 spots for the Olympics? I'm so upset I feel even THAT is endangered.

Definitely think Christina should be sent to worlds over gold

ITA but it's not going to happen. Christina is only an alternate and only an injury Heaven-forbid is going to cause either Wagner or Gold to step down.

The USFS has shot itself in the foot again. This is 2011 all over again.

I understand your concern but who else would you have picked for the second spot in this important year. Of course some one suggested we should send courtney hicks to worlds instead of gracie and I was like ...... seriously!? We could send Gao but she doesn't have very difficult content in her LP.

Christina has more than enough content to place top 10 at Worlds if she hits both her programs well. She is also liked by the international judges as one can see by her PCS scores even with a fall. She's been the most consistent of all the Americans this year and it's foolish not to send her to Worlds. I'm hoping Gracie will keep her nerves intact but it's not happening. And her flat-faced expression in her programs will do her no favors against the firepower of the Russians, Japanese, Yuna, and Kostner. Imo Christina has far better artistry and expression.

Difficult content doesn't matter if you can't execute it...

Thank you!

But pre Olympics worlds is a risky place for her to test her nerves....

Yes it is. I just hope against hope that Gracie proves me dead wrong and skates lights out at Worlds-along with Ashley who has yet to debut a 3-3 in her programs.

Frankly I don't adore Christina's skating and I can see why she gets lost in the shuffle. However if we are talking about making the world team and earning spots, why would you want to gamble on a skater who frankly isn't necessarily ready for prime time. I get wanting to put Gold out there for Sochi but this decision may cost us three spots. And lets not get into Wagner's meltdowns.

The point of the matter is if you base it on the overall skating right now Gao got royally screwed by the US judges.

This. In a nutshell.

So, if Gold takes 4C as a learning experience (this WAS only her 5th Senior International event and the first one where she met up head to head with the likes of Asada; she's still working through these things for the first time) and has a good skate at Worlds (SP with one less mistake - say doesn't put a hand down on the 3Lz but turns out of the 3+3, so around a 62-65 range and a LP with only one error, say the 3Lo <, fall so about 122-5) and scores lower than if she was totally lights out (so say in the 184-190 range), which is a much higher score than Gao's potential, what will you all say? I think a completely clean Gao is about 180-2 MAX with her current layouts and PCS looking at her score here. Don't forget, Nationals was just two weeks ago and there will be four weeks until Worlds practices start...there's time to work through whatever it was that ended up not being her best. Gao KNEW her season was over here and could go FULL out with a rest coming up...

Gao isn't going to Worlds so there's no way of knowing how she would've been scored had she skated clean. Gracie's POTENTIAL scores are high but she keeps making glaring mistakes in either one or the other of her programs. If she bombs the SP at Worlds she's going to get buried. Compared to Gao, she's been the more inconsistent of the two but thanks to politics she was held up high enough that she's on the World team over a more imo deserving skater. Christina's placement at 4CC, well over Gold, who bombed yet again, and Agnes who bombed even worse is at least some small redemption for her.

Except that, to get to Worlds, Gao needed to beat Gold at US Nationals. And not only did she fail to do so, she was also defeated by Agnes Zawadzki and Courtney Hicks in her first senior Nationals.

Gold's potential is in the 180-190 range--only Yuna Kim and Mao Asada can match her technical content. Gao would have to be very, very lucky to break 180.

Gao didn't 'fail' to beat Gold, Hicks, or Agnes at Nationals. She was lowballed by the judges, and the others ahead of her, especially Gracie and Agnes received higher than deserved marks from the U.S. judges to keep her down in 5th. Gold was held up in the SP, obsurdly so, and her sky-high marks in the FS were designed to make it near impossible for anyone other than Wagner to beat her. Same with Agnes. I'm glad the international judges have appreciated Christina much more, and she's beaten her compatriots without the politics that keeps her down in her own country.

I think Mao, and Akiko were amazing. Mao had mistakes but kudos to her for trying an 8 jump FS! Murakami-I could take her or leave her. Her programs just left me cold. I preferred Lijun Li and Christina Gao's programs over her and would have been happy if either one of those ladies had taken the bronze instead of Murakami.

[ForeverFish]

Gao didn't 'fail' to beat Gold, Hicks, or Agnes at Nationals. She was lowballed by the judges, and the others ahead of her, especially Gracie and Agnes received higher than deserved marks from the U.S. judges to keep her down in 5th. Gold was held up in the SP, obsurdly so, and her sky-high marks in the FS were designed to make it near impossible for anyone other than Wagner to beat her. Same with Agnes. I'm glad the international judges have appreciated Christina much more, and she's beaten her compatriots without the politics that keeps her down in her own country.

You may be right about the politics involved with Wagner, Gold, and Zawadzki, but I fail to see how the US would gain anything by pushing Hicks, the newbie, onto the podium over Gao. A few mistakes along the way made her miss the pewter medal, and she knows it.

Actually, have you compared the scores received by Gao and Gold on the GP circuit? Even sloppy, Gold's CoR score was higher than that of Gao's near-flawless performance on home ice. At 4CC, a great Gao beat a disastrous Gold. No surprise. What Gold has proven is that she can squeeze into the Top 6 at a major international competition even with significant falters, whereas the same mistakes from Gao would have taken her permanently out of contention.

[Ziggy]

I agree that Kaetlyn should have higher PCS than Gao or Gold, but I still think she is a notch behind someone like Adelina. She does a LOT of transitions and should score well in that, but she does so many that sometimes the quality of her line is impacted. Certain moves she does also look sloppy, for example comparing her illusion spin to Adelina's and you see a big differnce in the line they maintain. I'm so happy to see Kaetlyn attempt the difficult choreography because her execution of it will only get better with time.

Then deduct her on the PE somewhat for the weak posture and lines but mark her higher than anybody else for things like TR or CH.

That's what's so frustrating. They system is set-up decently, the judges just aren't using it.

How many more sub expectation performances from Kaetlyn before she changes coaches?

She's not a robot. And she seems very happy with her coach.

[figuristka]

Lovely photo from Eric Radford with the ladies https://twitter.com/Rad85E/status/30...992192/photo/1

[Mathman]

Lovely photo from Eric Radford with the ladies https://twitter.com/Rad85E/status/30...992192/photo/1

[shine]

I agree that Kaetlyn should have higher PCS than Gao or Gold, but I still think she is a notch behind someone like Adelina. She does a LOT of transitions and should score well in that, but she does so many that sometimes the quality of her line is impacted. Certain moves she does also look sloppy, for example comparing her illusion spin to Adelina's and you see a big differnce in the line they maintain. I'm so happy to see Kaetlyn attempt the difficult choreography because her execution of it will only get better with time.

I agree with this. I really respect her and her team for putting together detailed programs like the ones she has right from the very start. I love that she's not a "wimp" like so many other ladies whose programs consist of the simplest "transitions" or where the choreography is mostly in the upper body. If this is what she's doing now, you can be pretty sure that she'll only get better with time. And really, all she needs is time to learn to finish off her moves more, to mature in her interpretation, and present her programs with even more authenticity. She has all the ingredients already. And it's ridiculous to think that she sholud leave her coach. She has come so far in all aspects over the last year and the programs they've put together for this year are just wonderful.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Lovely photo from Eric Radford with the ladies https://twitter.com/Rad85E/status/30...992192/photo/1

Duhamel looks ripped in that photo. Suzuki, Asada and Murakami look amazing. Wow.

[Tinymavy15]

Duhamel looks ripped in that photo. Wow.

damm girl...

[Ilvskating]

congratulations to Mao! So happy for her! great to see the joy comes back.

I feel Zijun Li was seriously underscored inPCS. her FS was so lovely but she only got the seventh or eighth PCS. should be a lot higher. I think Kanoko? Was way overscored.

[Skater Boy]

Is it wise for Mao to be playing with her jump layout this close to Worlds?

How many more sub expectation performances from Kaetlyn before she changes coaches?

Huh she had two bad skates and even then she is just introducing herself to the competitive world. Aren't we panicking ab it too soon.