02-16-2013, 03:24 AM
Her Quad Toe was as much around as the Quad Salchow from Miki Ando, which should have been downgraded as well.
Originally Posted by hurrah
You asked a question, I answered it.
Has nothing to do with CoP or PCS, really.
I do wish Ando had Bonaly's Spinning ability and flexibility, though...
If you know how jumping works, Bonaly's quad is even MORE impressive because her air position is so bad (from a top skater) that it isn't even funny. She tended to be quite square when she rotated (a bad position to land in for checking out of jumps, a bad position for rotation since she often was not rotating properly on her right side i.e. backspin position), which led to a lot of her landings being a bit off axis and not having any flow. That's why she had to swing her leg around a lot, to counter-balance the landing and force herself onto an edge. She did a lot to counter her own rotation and was still able to get it that far around. That is very impressive and a huge testament to her athleticism (since she tended to fully rotate all of her triples back then, and could to triple-triples as well as splits into triples, back flips into triples, etc.).
With better coaching, Bonaly could have been doing 2 different quads (Toe, Salchow) and quad toe combinations before Lillehammer rolled around (in addition to having significantly better skating skills and choreography).
As for the interim system being too draconian, that's your opinion. I think there is too much margin for error these days, and the penalties are not stiff enough for some things like falls, URs, and edge calls. It's to the point where a lot of skaters ignore fixing those obvious issues (cause it's on their protocol every time, especially the edge calls for Lutzes or Flips) and instead just don't repeat the jump in their program (Mao/Wagner/Osmond one Lutz only, Gold one Flip only). Etc.
Last edited by SkateNater; 02-16-2013 at 03:33 AM.
02-16-2013, 03:44 AM
If by reference you're referring to the flip jump taking off forwards... That's the way the jump is executed.
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
Slow down some Loops, Salchows, Toe Loops, and Lutzes as well. Feast your eyes. Almost all of them take off forwards or close to forwards. That has no bearing on that conversation IRT Mao's jumps. There is no pre-rotation on those jumps. Those are the jump mechanics. If she wants a concussion, however, she's free to try to get a backwards take-off on any of those jumps. Should be fun to watch, like a reverse Waxel.
The only way to get a jump off like that going straight backwards (or even close to it) is basically to jump straight up and try to rotate almost a full 3 revolutions. People don't even do single jumps that way, unless they're just learning them and even then a good coach will correct that.
The Axel takes off more sideways (usually about 45 degrees past forwards), but Mao's is almost backwards on the take-off. That actually IS a pre-rotation problem. I noticed she doesn't tend to do that on her Double Axels much, just the triple. So, she is obviously cheating the take-off to get that jump around (since the take-off pre-rotation is less likely to be checked than the landing).
I have noticed judges have a tendency to ignore obvious UR on double jumps, especially in combination and ESPECIALLY in 3 jump combos.
Maybe the judges have started checking her Axel take-offs?
Originally Posted by FSGMT
Last edited by SkateNater; 02-16-2013 at 03:48 AM.
02-16-2013, 10:25 AM
02-16-2013, 10:48 AM
Bona Fide Member
Mirai Nagasu (also Mao Asada, I think) is an example of a skater who gets UR calls for that. She reaches down with her toe-pick while she is still rotating.
Originally Posted by let`s talk
About the need for more precise rules. this has also bugged me about the criterion for wrong edge calls. As far as I can make out, the "back outside edge" is a description of a properly done Lutz jump, not a definition. If it were a definition, then there could be no such thing as a wrong edge Lutz.
It seems to me that the idea is "everyone knows what a Lutz jump is" so we don't need to define it anywhere. You know, it has a long straight entrance (or maybe a shorter entrance), it happens in the Lutz corner (or maybe somewhere else) -- well, it's just all Lutzy, no one can mistake it for the flippy flip, regardless of take-off edge.
If the criterion is the clear establishment of "counter-rotation," what exactly must the skater do minimally to satisfy that requirement?
Last edited by Mathman; 02-16-2013 at 10:54 AM.
02-16-2013, 11:11 AM