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Thread: 2013 4cc Free Dance

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It must be true (what Tessa said). What possible reason would they have for lying?
    Because Moir always, always thinks he should win. He certainly didn't want to lose twice to D&W going into worlds. If they lost points on that lift, he knew he would surely lose. Better to stop lift altogether and restart. I guess I'm cynical, but then I do know a little bit of how Moir thinks.

  2. #242
    Custom Title figuristka's Avatar
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    How misfortunate to have the leg cramp, i do hope its nothing to do with her previous condition with her legs which caused her to not be able to skate. She seemed to be breathing hard but maybe it was because of the pain and stress of the situation.Their program is the most difficult and complex to perform, they could make it a little easier but what a wonderful program. Right away i found it a program which commands your attention. Just wonder if we will get to see it perfectly executed. Hope both V/M and D/W can skate well. V/M have the chemistry, complexity, and unision and D/W have the speed, lightness, and skate unrestrained.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by icefan1005 View Post
    Don't think Charlie was stuck in a wheelchair like Tessa was in '09 & had to have rehabilitation to learn how to walk again. You really can't compare Tessa's CECS & Charlie's athsma. They're both different conditions that require different kinds of treatment. It could be that her cramps flare up now & then; we don't really know the extent of her condition right now.
    Both are pretty awful conditions to have if you're an athlete, actually. We don't know the true severity of Charlie's asthma, either, but did you watch Yuzuru Hanyu's free skate at the Finlandia Trophy last year? After the program, he literally had to lie facedown on the ice until he could breathe again.

  4. #244
    Custom Title figuristka's Avatar
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    Sorry somehow there was a double post.
    Last edited by figuristka; 02-11-2013 at 05:59 AM.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Because Moir always, always thinks he should win. He certainly didn't want to lose twice to D&W going into worlds. If they lost points on that lift, he knew he would surely lose. Better to stop lift altogether and restart. I guess I'm cynical, but then I do know a little bit of how Moir thinks.
    LOL Yup. I loved how in the press conference after finally beating D/W in the SD he was all, "Oh I'm just here for the joy of competing and if my coaches are happy, I'm happy." And my first thought was, well considering how you react whenever you lose to D/W, that statement would steam on a cold day...

    But then I can be a cynic too. LOL.

  6. #246
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    "I said this in the 4CCs thread, but if you look to Tessa's skating leg in the setup for the lift, you can see it sort of shake and give way, preventing her from being able to push up into the lift."

    "When they're going into the lift, after she steps on her left leg it goes shaky, and then she picks up her left leg as if it were in pain or cramped up. Pay close attention to her leg after she does the last cross in front. It doesn't look stable at all."

    -triple_toe on FSU.

  7. #247
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    Just saw Maia and Alex's FD. Standing ovation. A FD score just .20 off their personal best. Eurosport commentator: "They couldn't have done that any better." (They did lose some levels, so technically they could do a little better...but I get the spirit of what he was saying).

    Yep, they're DOOMED.

    Congrats to Meryl and Charlie and good job to Tessa and Scott for toughing it out. And Madison and Evan for winning bronze with two solid programs.

    Worlds is going to be interesting!

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcnative View Post
    Them being able to repeat the lift is at issue for me because they do not just get judged on the lift but also on the run out and how smoothly the lift was executed. In order for them to execute that particular lift smoothly (maybe at all) and have good runout they had to be able to perform the skating that led up to the lift to build up speed and momentum.
    Not to mention that ice dance is not just a contest, it's part performance. Once you break the flow, there should be a consequence in the score. You can't just stop and wait for an injury to get better and resume play like in tennis. This is supposed to be a 4 minute program that tests artistry in concert with stamina. If you're not healthy, do what you think is best: stop or go. But there needs to be a correlation between the delivery of the program and the score.

  9. #249
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    Yeah, there was definitely something wrong with her leg. After rewatching that place over and over, I noticed that her left leg would twitch and she was the one that seemed slightly in pain, so I don't think Scott's the problem here. If anything, he was a great partner. He noticed she had a problem and didn't do the lift, and, while I can't read lips, it seemed to me that after that he kept telling her "Don't skate, don't skate". Anyway, it was a great program to watch and I hope Tessa's ok!

    Meryl and Charlie, wow That was a terrific skate from the two of them. They really gave 110% out there, poor Charlie couldn't even stand on his feet for a while after the program. Hope both them and V/M keep improving and that we'll get to see them skate their programs best at the Worlds.

    And the Shibs skated really well too, wish they could've grabbed that bronze medal... Shame they didn't.

  10. #250
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    Thanks for posting, Lota. Welcome!

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by GF2445 View Post
    I agree. They respect the sport so much that I doubt that what they did was cheating. Some of the previous posts said that she didnt overly outly express the pain from leg cramps. There are ways to adage pain without screaming, shouting or swearing. Also, remember that their ultimate goal this season is worlds 2013. If there was a problem with Tessa, it would be better to stop than to continue and cause injury.
    How do you know they respect the sport so much? What evidence do you have of this?

    Obviously, any skater wants to do great at worlds. But why throw away a competition? If a competition is worth throwing away/ not doing your best, then it's not worth going. I resent the fact that V/M only want to do great at worlds, yet D/W want to do great at every competition and show it by putting their all into every event, even the "small ones." That, to me, is "respecting the sport."

    Quote Originally Posted by hitchem View Post
    Another problem with the rule is that skaters seem completely able to give whatever reason they'd like for stopping. When we've seen interruptions, there haven't been any medical evaluations (in comparison to tennis, which posters compared this to), but the skaters themselves just seem to tell the referee what to do. Fans are left to break down videos to figure out if there's an injury and which partner might be injured. It's ridiculous.
    Exactly. If there is a medical condition then it needs to be documented, or this rule is ripe for manipulation by any skater who feels they just need a break. If there's not a medical evaluation on the spot, then the skater needs to explain to the judge what it is. Not just stand there, then skate back over and ask to start again, like Scott did.

    To me, stopping to shake out your legs for two minutes because you don't have the stamina to do an element, is no different than popping a jump. If you are not physically ready then you don't deserve the silver medal.

    It's a completely different situation than say, a pairs skater falling during an element and hitting her face on the ice, which would clearly need a two minute break to evaluate before continuing. An injury that happens *during* the program. It's not the same as an "old injury" that keeps resurfacing.

    Even Ashley Wagner can fall majorly and bust her hip yet not stop the program. V/M are taking advantage of "break" rule and the judges are letting them, which is disappointing.

    Yes, it is suspicious because both times Tessa has had this issue at 4CC's, she stares ahead like a blank robot, doesn't explain to anyone what's going on, does not look in pain, and does not appear to require any sort of treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackswanphoto View Post
    People just do not want to believe that sweet ol' classy Tessa is above using gamesmanship. She may become the Azarenka of skating.
    Yep.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Because Moir always, always thinks he should win. He certainly didn't want to lose twice to D&W going into worlds. If they lost points on that lift, he knew he would surely lose. Better to stop lift altogether and restart. I guess I'm cynical, but then I do know a little bit of how Moir thinks.


    I like Tessa but the look on Moir's face every time he comes in 2nd just baffles me. There’s always a chance these two teams would go back and forth with the wins unless he just doesn’t think they are on that level.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by blancanieves View Post
    Not to mention that ice dance is not just a contest, it's part performance. Once you break the flow, there should be a consequence in the score. You can't just stop and wait for an injury to get better and resume play like in tennis. This is supposed to be a 4 minute program that tests artistry in concert with stamina. If you're not healthy, do what you think is best: stop or go. But there needs to be a correlation between the delivery of the program and the score.
    This is what bothers me about skaters stopping a program and then after a rest or whatever (e.g., peeling oneself off the boards, getting a new lace for one's skates, etc), resuming their program. The music has already been stopped, the skaters are consulting with judges, coaches. So the "presentation" has been ruined &, IMO, the performance should just be over and done with at that very point. This was not an exhibition, it was a competition and if you can't complete your program, you should be removed from the competition.

  14. #254
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    Why couldn't they just have left out the lift and kept on skating?

  15. #255
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    Because they would lose all the points associated with the lift. And when you have a competition that is always that close with your nearest rival, even fractions of a point are crucial. By restarting there was always the chance of saving the lift--and the points associated with it.

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