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Thread: 2013 4cc Free Dance

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by leil View Post
    so knowing all that tessa's been through with her legs and how devastating it can get, you'd rather her just push through it -- skate while injured and make it worse? if she's injured, she's entitled to stop and regroup because the point isn't to skate a full but subpar program and make a few fans happy but to actually protect her legs and the rest of the season.
    no, i don't want her to make it worse...but if she really is suffering from an injury that is bad that they have to stop, i think they should just stop and not finish the program. I think if she really needed to protect her legs/needed the break b/c the issue was that bad then they shouldn't have continued. I think we would understand that situation a lot better. Tessa has skated for years with CECS and didn't have surgery until the pain was so bad that she was basically told that if she didn't have the first surgery back in the 08-09 season that she would have to quit (and she would difficulty walking for basically the rest of her life) which is why she finally chose to have the surgery. otherwise, up until that point, she skated through extreme pain (i remember reading that she could only skate/keep her skates on for short increments of time b/c the pain was so bad and she would cry at practice).
    CECS is something that normally doesn't require surgery unless you are engaged in something that exacerbates it (i.e. being a competitive figure skater), and Tessa has had 2 surgeries. At this point if the condition is still THAT bad that she has to stop during a competition and couldn't skate through it than she should have stopped. there is a time to skate/fight through pain and there's a time not to...i'm just not buying the excuse because of Tessa's history of skating through the pain...

    (It's because of her CECS that i respect and admire Tessa so much, it's not a condition to be taken lightly, and for her to come back from two surgeries and still be the creme of the crop is truly remarkable) - to be honest, i accept Scott having a hand/arm cramp as the reason to stop and restart and them not continuing into the lift over Tessa having leg cramps but at this point, the leg cramp story is out...there's no going back...

    ---
    the reason why i made the comparison to breathing issues, skaters with asthma or who are competing with an illness will probably have difficulty breathing, but have learned to deal with it and skate on until the end of a program, but that's not a reason for them to stop...they might not be able to do their best, but we're seen a lot of skaters push through it. On the topic of skating through injury...2 years ago at the 2011 US Nationals, Joshua Farris BROKE his ankle during his FS...and he finished (granted at the time he thought he just twisted it after a bad landing, but he was still in enough pain he could have stopped, but he didn't). I respect skaters who stop/WD due to injury but i also know that more often than not, they will push through to finish the competition...
    now, a hand/arm issue for Scott during their performance is a good enough reason why they didn't go into the lift/had to stop. i accept that they were allowed to go back and repeat the lift since Tessa's feet never left the ice, but i think it shouldn't come without consequences (i.e. Trankov having issues with his costume/arms back at the worlds with Mukhortova where they cut the sleeves on his outfit apart...but even then, didn't they lose points?)
    a hand/arm issue prevents V/M from doing the lift but it doesn't give a season why they couldn't keep going (and just lose those points) b/c you can still skate the rest of the program...saying it was Tessa's legs gives them a reason/excuse to stop and be allowed to go back to repeat the element after a break...
    Last edited by icebeauty; 02-10-2013 at 05:21 PM.

  2. #212
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    Good grief...

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by leil View Post
    so knowing all that tessa's been through with her legs and how devastating it can get, you'd rather her just push through it -- skate while injured and make it worse? if she's injured, she's entitled to stop and regroup because the point isn't to skate a full but subpar program and make a few fans happy but to actually protect her legs and the rest of the season.
    I don't think anyone is saying that Tessa should have risked serious injury by continuing. The discussion appears to center on the nature of the "adverse condition" and whether or not a restart should have been allowed.

    I don't think anyone has come right out and said it, so I will: I'm not buying the official story. At least not yet. I reserve the right to change my mind should more definitive information be revealed.

  4. #214
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    Why isn't it required that the reason for the stoppage is a part of the protocols.

  5. #215
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    People just do not want to believe that sweet ol' classy Tessa is above using gamesmanship. She may become the Azarenka of skating.

  6. #216
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    FREE DANCE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

    1. Meryl DAVIS & Charlie WHITE (USA) - 187.36 Free Dance, 2nd Copy, Interview
    2. Tessa VIRTUE & Scott MOIR (CAN) - 184.32 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
    3. Madison CHOCK & Evan BATES (USA) - 160.42 Free Dance
    4. Maia SHIBUTANI & Alex SHIBUTANI (USA) - 159.97 Free Dance
    5. Piper GILLES & Paul POIRIER (CAN) - 157.83 Free Dance
    6. Nicole ORFORD & Thomas WILLIAMS (CAN) - 139.10 Free Dance
    7. Cathy REED & Chris REED (JPN) - 131.04 Free Dance
    8. Danielle OBRIEN & Gregory MERRIMAN (AUS) - 123.88 Free Dance
    9. Xiaoyang YU & Chen WANG (CHN) - 108.82 Free Dance
    10. Anna NAGORNYUK & Viktor KOVALENKO (UZB) - 107.02 Free Dance
    11. Emi HIRAI & Marien DE LA ASUNCION (JPN) - 105.56 Free Dance
    12. Bryna OI & Taiyo MIZUTANI (JPN) - 89.80 Free Dance
    13. Pilar MAEKAWA & Leonardo MAEKAWA (MEX) - 85.02

    Complete Final Warm-Up Group

    Medal Ceremony: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceg15 View Post
    http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/p...0.html?id=1259

    It was cramps in her legs people...
    Well, that was a strange reaction to leg cramps. No grimacing or rubbing the leg. When I have them, I let out a scream!!!! lmao

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancaf View Post
    Why did he shoo away the mike when he was talking to the coaches if the simple answer was leg cramps.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying that Tessa should have risked serious injury by continuing. The discussion appears to center on the nature of the "adverse condition" and whether or not a restart should have been allowed.

    I don't think anyone has come right out and said it, so I will: I'm not buying the official story. At least not yet. I reserve the right to change my mind should more definitive information be revealed.
    the poster i was responding to said that that he/she believed tessa was injured but wanted her to skate through it anyway because that's the kind of sportsmanship he/she respects.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by leil View Post
    the poster i was responding to said that that he/she believed tessa was injured but wanted her to skate through it anyway because that's the kind of sportsmanship he/she respects.
    actually that's not what i was saying...i was saying that Tessa has skated through worse which is why i'm not buying the leg cramps story...

    I was trying to explain that for the "leg injury" to be plausible, IMO, it would have to be so bad that they couldn't continue, period. Furthermore, if it's something sustained in training/Tessa was having flare-ups I would think they would/should have withdrawn...this is with Tessa's history being taken into account. If she was already having leg issues going into this competition, they shouldn't have skated. She should at this point in her career be smart enough about her condition to know what she can and cannot skate through and what will worsen the problem. If she was healthy enough to be at the competition then either the problem is no worse than normal or manageable enough that she shouldn't have to stop...That's why i'm having a problem with the reason the team is providing. Trust me, if it was Scott who had a problem or really any other reason, i'd be fine with it. considering Tessa's lack of a reaction during the break in regards to her legs, i'm doubtful/skeptical that the story is the truth.
    To me, the video seems to reveal that it was Scotts decision to not go into the lift/stop the program. So if it was his arm rather than Tessa's legs that was the problem, I'm actually very fine with the situation (although that leads into a whole other discussion about how cramps result...which was started earlier this afternoon...in regard sto hydration, poor training/lack or rest, etc) b/c the fact that they could do the rest of the program including lifts without much incident is applaudable especially with regards to the risks involved.
    (before the leg cramps were revealed to be the problem, and we thought it was a breathing issue, i was fine with it -- at least in regards to how the situation was handled. I just chose to point out instances in my morning posts where skaters have fought through difficulty breathing and that we'd be going down a slippery slope if "needing to catch your breath" is going to be a plausible reason going forward)

    and also, to say that having a skater skate through pain/injury the kind of sportsmanship i respect is entirely false. I use to dance, and have had my share of mishaps on stage, some were just embarrassing, others involved blood (cuts/scratches) or resulted in some ugly bruises, and some were just hell. i know i've danced through injuries that i really shouldn't have but i was too stubborn to stop - on stage/take time off - classes/rehearsals...and trust me, i don't recommend it to anyone...it's not intelligent to do that to your body.
    Last edited by icebeauty; 02-10-2013 at 06:06 PM.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    And what exactly is the "health problem"? Scott skated over to the judges and asked to re-start. Where did he explain the health problem?

    A leg cramp at two different 4CC's? Not buying it.

    So, does "Carmen" put a stop to the old argument that D/W skate to "easier, well-known music" and V/M skate to "difficult, more obscure music"?



    But she did stop?

    And yet Charlie keeps going, with asthma, no excuses there...
    These comments are getting really ridiculous. Tessa skated through pain leading up to the Olympics without letting anybody know – so yes, she is a warrior! This definitely is not new news. When you get a cramp in the middle of a program with lifts etc. still to be completed, you’re not only risking yourself, but also your partner hence they stopped. I’ve had cramps during tennis and even when the cramps subsided the pain would still linger. Tessa fought the pain and chose to pick up and finish the program and I think that’s admirable.

    I don’t buy that they *took an easy way * because they’re *nervous* - Please, these two are Olympic Gold Medallists, Two-Time World Champions, and have been on the Worlds podium in the past five years. Handing their nerves at 4CC should be within their range.
    Last edited by IndieBoi; 02-10-2013 at 06:00 PM.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Well, that was a strange reaction to leg cramps. No grimacing or rubbing the leg. When I have them, I let out a scream!!!! lmao
    I thought the same thing...or I stretch. Not saying she didn't have leg cramps, it just was not evident.

  13. #223
    Custom Title CassAgain's Avatar
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    She did pick up her leg pretty much immediately after they didn't do the lift and continued to pick up the leg throughout the pause.

    I don't doubt that her leg was hurt, and this was probably the last thing Tessa and Scott wanted to have happen today.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitchem View Post
    It's odd that Tessa didn't look to be favoring her leg, or even rub or massage her leg at all during the break. Or am I missing something? If she was cramping, it doesn't look like it was too severe.
    Neither did Alex Shibutani and that seemed quite weird since it's almost reflexive.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by icebeauty View Post
    actually that's not what i was saying...i was saying that Tessa has skated through worse which is why i'm not buying the leg cramps story...

    I was trying to explain that for the "leg injury" to be plausible, IMO, it would have to be so bad that they couldn't continue, period. Furthermore, if it's something sustained in training/Tessa was having flare-ups I would think they would/should have withdrawn...this is with Tessa's history being taken into account. If she was already having leg issues going into this competition, they shouldn't have skated. She should at this point in her career be smart enough about her condition to know what she can and cannot skate through and what will worsen the problem. If she was healthy enough to be at the competition then either the problem is no worse than normal or manageable enough that she shouldn't have to stop...That's why i'm having a problem with the reason the team is providing. Trust me, if it was Scott who had a problem or really any other reason, i'd be fine with it. considering Tessa's lack of a reaction during the break in regards to her legs, i'm doubtful/skeptical that the story is the truth.
    To me, the video seems to reveal that it was Scotts decision to not go into the lift/stop the program. So if it was his arm rather than Tessa's legs that was the problem, I'm actually very fine with the situation (although that leads into a whole other discussion about how cramps result...which was started earlier this afternoon...in regard sto hydration, poor training/lack or rest, etc) b/c the fact that they could do the rest of the program including lifts without much incident is applaudable especially with regards to the risks involved.
    (before the leg cramps were revealed to be the problem, and we thought it was a breathing issue, i was fine with it -- at least in regards to how the situation was handled. I just chose to point out instances in my morning posts where skaters have fought through difficulty breathing and that we'd be going down a slippery slope if "needing to catch your breath" is going to be a plausible reason going forward)

    and also, to say that having a skater skate through pain/injury the kind of sportsmanship i respect is entirely false. I use to dance, and have had my share of mishaps on stage, some were just embarrassing, others involved blood (cuts/scratches) or resulted in some ugly bruises, and some were just hell. i know i've danced through injuries that i really shouldn't have but i was too stubborn to stop - on stage/take time off - classes/rehearsals...and trust me, i don't recommend it to anyone...it's not intelligent to do that to your body.
    you said "otherwise i would have preferred that they skate through it (albeit with a probably sub-par skate)." and that's what i took it to mean: tessa should have skated through the pain. to me though, IF tessa had something go wrong with her leg and a break is all she needed to help, then i don't want her to ignore it and just skate through it. that's how you exacerbate injuries. and having followed that leg injury over the years, that's one injury that i do not want to flare up.
    Last edited by leil; 02-10-2013 at 06:35 PM.

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