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Thread: 2013 4cc Free Dance

  1. #226
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceBeauty
    To me, the video seems to reveal that it was Scotts decision to not go into the lift/stop the program. So if it was his arm rather than Tessa's legs that was the problem, I'm actually very fine with the situation...
    The video evidence taken by itself does give more support to the guess about Scott's hand.

    But if so, then we can hardly be "fine" with Scott trying to put the blame on Tessa.

  2. #227
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    I am watching the FD on Universal Sports TV. Am waiting to hear if a reason is given for the pause....
    Just before the lift, Scott starts talking to Tessa, shaking his head, gesturing with his left hand and speaking forcefully. She did not seem to be having trouble breathing nor was she favoring a leg.

    The commentator said the stop was "due to an injury" but did not say what the injury was or who had the injury.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by CassAgain View Post
    She did pick up her leg pretty much immediately after they didn't do the lift and continued to pick up the leg throughout the pause.

    I don't doubt that her leg was hurt, and this was probably the last thing Tessa and Scott wanted to have happen today.
    I agree. They respect the sport so much that I doubt that what they did was cheating. Some of the previous posts said that she didnt overly outly express the pain from leg cramps. There are ways to adage pain without screaming, shouting or swearing. Also, remember that their ultimate goal this season is worlds 2013. If there was a problem with Tessa, it would be better to stop than to continue and cause injury.

  4. #229
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    Another problem with the rule is that skaters seem completely able to give whatever reason they'd like for stopping. When we've seen interruptions, there haven't been any medical evaluations (in comparison to tennis, which posters compared this to), but the skaters themselves just seem to tell the referee what to do. Fans are left to break down videos to figure out if there's an injury and which partner might be injured. It's ridiculous.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The video evidence taken by itself does give more support to the guess about Scott's hand.

    But if so, then we can hardly be "fine" with Scott trying to put the blame on Tessa.
    in that context, I wouldn't be "fine" with placing the blame on Tessa. I was saying that i'd be fine for the whole injury/break/start/stop/"repeated" elements discussion if the reason provided was Scott's arm rather than Tessa's legs...

    i guess it's not fair of me to say that when I see Tessa shake out her legs, i don't react/am not super concerned about it only b/c she does that frequently -- it's how i imagine she deals with her leg issues, but to not see her massage her legs during the break makes the story seem contrived...furthermore, i agree with the poster above about how it's incredibly difficulty/frustrating for us to see that these discussions/decisions happen only between skaters and coach then with skater and referee without consultation from a 3rd party...it just makes the whole situation a bit suspect.

    I wholeheartedly believe that Tessa or Scott -- whoever had the problem -- had a real/acceptable reason to stop. I by no means think that they "cheated," in anyway. Although, I do think the rules need to be re-evaluted/revisited...at least in regards to if deductions should be made and if a proper evaluation needs to be made if it is medical. Currently, the reasons being provided doesn't exactly make the most sense, especially when you take into account the video as well as the teams history where Tessa has skated through worse pain.

    I'm not targeting V/M because if this was any other team, i'd pretty much be saying the same thing as i've already said...there isn't a lot of transparency or proof that the reason being provided is true...so it's just hard for me to take it at face value and it's reflecting poorly on my feelings about V/M.
    I apologize for being so skeptical. But ice dancing (and figure skating as a whole) doesn't exactly have the most sparkling history when it comes to integrity so i'm just pointing out things that make this whole situation a little strange
    Last edited by icebeauty; 02-10-2013 at 07:18 PM.

  6. #231
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    Looking at 3rd - 5th. Both Gilles / Pourier and the Shibutani's were ahead of Chock / Bates in the free program. The Shibutani's were less than 1/2 point behind Chock/Bates overall.

    I enjoy the Shibutani's skating so I watched them a lot at Nationals. I noticed that Maia has indeed grown. I remember a time when we worried she might not grow enough (weird as usually we worry that someone will grow too much). I also noticed they don't seem as fast as they used to. Their twizzles were always the fastest in the business and I always marveled. I'm assuming that her growth has been the biggest factor in this lack of speed. I hope they are able to adjust and gain that speed back again.

    Concerning Gilles/Pourier; they have certainly improved since I saw them at the International B in Salt Lake in September.

    A bit off topic - the international B in Salt Lake certainly turned out to be good luck for many of the skaters there (including Chock/Bates). Many of the programs that looked so ragged there have turned out great now that they are more developed.
    Last edited by A.H.Black; 02-10-2013 at 07:11 PM.

  7. #232
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    also, I'm really missing Kaitlyn and Andrew this season...i saw someone say that they're back on the ice...but does anyone have any news/facts about how long they've been back and how trainings going? has anyone seen them skate?

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Where the lift was to have come, they got into position, then Scott was gesturing with his left hand, as if he had a cramp and wasn't able to have enough power in that hand to do the lift. He was also flexing that left hand over and over on the podium.

    I don't think Tessa was having trouble breathing, I think it was Scott's hand that was the problem.
    Agree with both of you. Scott put his left hand on her leg for the lift and then pulled it away. Before the stop Tessa didn't look like she was skating gingerly on that leg or bravely fighting through a sudden painful leg cramp. Plus wouldn't she have instinctively tried to massage/rub her leg muscles during their break to help herself skate? It's all very mysterious.
    Last edited by Eislauf; 02-10-2013 at 07:28 PM.

  9. #234
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    After watching the vid I think the problem was either Tessa (or maybe Scott) got spooked going into that very dangerous lift...timing was off, his hand placement etc and he/she just didnt feel comfortable doing it. If he had a cramp in his hand that seems like a likely solution...in any event he seemed to be doing a lot of talking where she was mostly listening.

  10. #235
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    Them being able to repeat the lift is at issue for me because they do not just get judged on the lift but also on the run out and how smoothly the lift was executed. In order for them to execute that particular lift smoothly (maybe at all) and have good runout they had to be able to perform the skating that led up to the lift to build up speed and momentum.

  11. #236
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    Yeah, the mystery is over! Tessa had cramps in her leg. She said so herself as per the article on Icenetwork.
    "I just had some cramp in my legs to deal with," Virtue said. "I'm glad we collected ourselves and kept pushing through the program."
    Make what you will of it.

  12. #237
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    It must be true (what Tessa said). What possible reason would they have for lying?

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by aims View Post
    Yeah, the mystery is over! Tessa had cramps in her leg. She said so herself as per the article on Icenetwork.
    "I just had some cramp in my legs to deal with," Virtue said. "I'm glad we collected ourselves and kept pushing through the program."
    Make what you will of it.
    I still don't understand why it seemed like Scott was the one who initiated the stop, but Mathman is right, they wouldn't have a good reason to lie.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    After watching the vid I think the problem was either Tessa (or maybe Scott) got spooked going into that very dangerous lift...timing was off, his hand placement etc and he/she just didnt feel comfortable doing it. If he had a cramp in his hand that seems like a likely solution...in any event he seemed to be doing a lot of talking where she was mostly listening.
    It looked very much like a timing thing to me.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcnative View Post
    Them being able to repeat the lift is at issue for me because they do not just get judged on the lift but also on the run out and how smoothly the lift was executed. In order for them to execute that particular lift smoothly (maybe at all) and have good runout they had to be able to perform the skating that led up to the lift to build up speed and momentum.
    Very true.

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