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Thread: 2013 4cc Free Dance

  1. #256
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Why couldn't they just have left out the lift and kept on skating?
    Because they could have dropped to third with the lost points and Scott M would have been PO'd...

  2. #257
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Because Moir always, always thinks he should win. He certainly didn't want to lose twice to D&W going into worlds. If they lost points on that lift, he knew he would surely lose. Better to stop lift altogether and restart. I guess I'm cynical, but then I do know a little bit of how Moir thinks.
    Yikes, if you are suggesting some kind of unethical conduct from Moir, that is a contemptible (and completely far-fetched, IMHO) accusation.

    I am not naive. I was disappointed -- but not shocked -- that Lance Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs, for example.

    But from what I know of Virtue/Moir (and the equally competitive Davis/White), it is unthinkable to me that any one of them would want to win with anything but integrity and fair play. I feel strongly that their mutual goal is to earn the gold by skating their best -- not to win at any cost whatsoever. All four athletes would refuse to bring dishonor to themselves, their longtime partners, their countries, and the sport to which they have devoted their lives. For example, V/M have said more than once that being great people is more important to them than being great skaters. D/W no doubt share that perspective.

    [And BTW, regarding my earlier comment: I would say that the relevance of medical time-outs in tennis is that figure skating is not unique in sanctioning pauses within competition for certain reasons. The rules of the two sports are not perfectly analogous, but I would add that each sport has its own challenges. Skaters perform and are scrutinized continuously for a full four minutes, whereas a single point in tennis could last barely seconds. A complete tennis match is of far longer duration, but players take short breaks after every other game, etc., etc.]

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by meem View Post
    This is what bothers me about skaters stopping a program and then after a rest or whatever (e.g., peeling oneself off the boards, getting a new lace for one's skates, etc), resuming their program. The music has already been stopped, the skaters are consulting with judges, coaches. So the "presentation" has been ruined &, IMO, the performance should just be over and done with at that very point. This was not an exhibition, it was a competition and if you can't complete your program, you should be removed from the competition.
    Couldnt agree more, well said !!

  4. #259
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    I think V and M especially competitive Scott know they are in big trouble. I would like to see D and W try something more experiemental next year but I doubt they will. Kind of like Kwan who did try different stuff but always kind of looked the same no matter what she skated too.

  5. #260
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    FREE DANCE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

    1. Meryl DAVIS & Charlie WHITE (USA) - 187.36 Free Dance, 2nd Copy, Interview
    2. Tessa VIRTUE & Scott MOIR (CAN) - 184.32 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
    3. Madison CHOCK & Evan BATES (USA) - 160.42 Free Dance
    4. Maia SHIBUTANI & Alex SHIBUTANI (USA) - 159.97 Free Dance
    5. Piper GILLES & Paul POIRIER (CAN) - 157.83 Free Dance
    6. Nicole ORFORD & Thomas WILLIAMS (CAN) - 139.10 Free Dance
    7. Cathy REED & Chris REED (JPN) - 131.04 Free Dance
    8. Danielle OBRIEN & Gregory MERRIMAN (AUS) - 123.88 Free Dance
    9. Xiaoyang YU & Chen WANG (CHN) - 108.82 Free Dance
    10. Anna NAGORNYUK & Viktor KOVALENKO (UZB) - 107.02 Free Dance
    11. Emi HIRAI & Marien DE LA ASUNCION (JPN) - 105.56 Free Dance
    12. Bryna OI & Taiyo MIZUTANI (JPN) - 89.80 Free Dance
    13. Pilar MAEKAWA & Leonardo MAEKAWA (MEX) - 85.02 Free Dance (13 mins 5 secs in)

    Complete Final Warm-Up Group, Complete Free Dance

    Medal Ceremony: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It must be true (what Tessa said). What possible reason would they have for lying?
    Because if Tessa's leg was the problem, the sympathy would be entirely with her, considering her surgeries. If it was Scott's hand and he aborted the lift because of it, there might be more outrage over their being able to start from the lift.

  7. #262
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    I'm fine with the break I guess if Tessa indeed had a legitimate reason
    what ticked me off most was Diva Moir's hand telling the cameraman to take a hike !

  8. #263
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    what ticked me off most was Diva Moir's hand telling the cameraman to take a hike !
    That didn't bother me. I hate how they always shove a camera in the skater's face, especially in this case when something was clearly wrong.

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    I'm fine with the break I guess if Tessa indeed had a legitimate reason
    what ticked me off most was Diva Moir's hand telling the cameraman to take a hike !
    I can't agree more. The handling of the whole situation surely can be improved. An announcement, some explanation on the spot, to the paying crowd, instead of leaving everyone, including the commentators, to wonder what happened. The sport surely can use a better image, and this isn't exactly the best moment to cry for privacy.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Why couldn't they just have left out the lift and kept on skating?
    b//c that lift is a MAJOR point getter. It's a combo lift, so with the level and GOEs added in, it gets them at least 10pts (it got them 10.43 at this comp, which is a HUGE chunk of the TES score) and of course even though PCS should be judged separately from TES, when teams are strong/flashy/unique in the elements, judges do reward them in the PCS too...
    of couse one could make the argument that they could have possibly skipped the straight-line part of the lift (the more dangerous of the two as Tessa is inverted, and requires more preparation and balance) and gone into the rotational lift (or at least some version of one to get points and not stop the program entirely). After watching the video again, I think that both of them probably considered continuing during the period that they were gliding for the duration of the lift and waiting for the music. However, since Tessa's feet never left the ice, they must have also realized they was the possibility of actually earning the points. After looking at scores, it should be noted that even without the 10+ pts from the lift, they would have STILL finished in 2nd...

    Regardless, this makes worlds very interesting as the competition will be in Tessa's hometown. I think both teams have solid programs, but D/W have been having better results, both in consistency and performance, and look a lot more comfortable with their programs at competitions (i absolutely love their Giselle as I think it captures the spirit and style perfectly). V/M have looked like a work-in-progress all season (even last season), and while constant improvement is important, there comes a point, when the program has be natural so they don't need to worry about what's next...i almost worry that because V/M have focused so much on the last two seasons on being different -- and making changes constantly -- that they haven't ever really gotten comfortable with what they have worked on. Preparation for worlds is going to be really important for them -- i'd imagine there's going to be lots of media, addressing injury/physical issues if there are any, and getting comfortable enough with their programs that they can work on execution rather than making adjustments, and pretty much completely ignore D/W during training. D/W's preparation and consistency until this point is pretty remarkable; they look like they could fast-forward the next 6 weeks and compete and get gold at worlds. V/M are not the best at being the "hunters"/underdogs/coming from behind so what/how they deal with training for worlds will be important if they want to keep the title.

  11. #266
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    in regards to scott's reaction to the camera/mic...i think it's a legit request (granted, he could have handled it better) but it would also help if there could be rules about what's allowed and not from the cameraman in these situations...

    What I hope happens is that the rules about interruptions in programs are re-visited, and that new time limits and rules are made. Such as, how much time is allowed for an equipment issue, a costume issue, a injury, or other disturbance (i.e. something gets thrown on the ice). As well as, in what situation is the skater allowed to leave the ice and return or does the skater/team have to remain on the ice. And in the case of injury/something medical is a consult required? just food for thought.

  12. #267
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icebeauty View Post
    in regards to scott's reaction to the camera/mic...i think it's a legit request (granted, he could have handled it better) but it would also help if there could be rules about what's allowed and not from the cameraman in these situations...
    I agree that Moir's request was legit.

    To clarify how he handled that part of the situation, I will add:

    What I'm pretty sure Moir was saying at that point was: "Mike, Mike ..." -- to get the attention of Mike Slipchuk, high performance director of Skate Canada, who was standing very close to Zoueva.

    In other words, I do not think Moir was saying, "Mic, mic ... " -- as if to directly address the cameraman with the microphone.

    And Moir's waving of his hand also was his quick nonverbal way of asking Slipchuk to respond to the cameraman's approach, IMHO.

    In the wide shot of the scene that immediately followed, Slipchuk can be seen guiding the cameraman to step back.

    The only small point I'm trying to make is that from what I heard and saw on the video, Moir was not uncivil to the cameraman.

    (I recognize that whether keeping the cameraman at a distance is justified is a separate question.)
    Last edited by golden411; 02-11-2013 at 04:01 PM.

  13. #268
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    Charlie and Yuzuru's medical condition is well noted as well as Tessa's leg condition. Maybe next time they could stop and take some oxygen before going into the last lift, or the 3rd quad (maybe Yuzu could do the 3rd quad this way). After all, sometimes the guys can barely stand up after a program. My point is, without the evidence of a medical examination, or anything, who is to say what situation deserves a break, unless it's a pair skater smashed her head on the ice.

    Don't get me wrong, I love V/M's skating, but just hate for them to leave the door open for people's second guessing, or defending.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by qazwsx View Post
    Charlie and Yuzuru's medical condition is well noted as well as Tessa's leg condition. Maybe next time they could stop and take some oxygen before going into the last lift, or the 3rd quad (maybe Yuzu could do the 3rd quad this way). After all, sometimes the guys can barely stand up after a program.
    OXYGEN

    Maybe their federation should fine them like Rachael Flatt for having a documented injury that prevents them from competing their best. But no, then they would get "poor ol' Tessa, and gentlemanly Scott protecting her" sympathy points at World's. Completely absolved of any responsibility. Maybe the ISU will create the Virtue-Moir Rule, preventing any rest without a doctor's note.

  15. #270
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    Interesting discussion here. Haven't posted in a long time but just want to add my suggestions for handling 'interruptions': Bring back the automatic deduction (as others have mentioned). Across all disciplines and all skaters, doesn't matter if D/W or V/M or X, Y, Z is involved. Apply a deduction to any stoppage whether due to a fall or equipment malfunction, onslaught of cramps, shortness of breath, nausea, etc. There should be a maximum amount of 'break' time. If skater/s go over that time limit, they either default or receive additional deductions and warning for delaying 'the game'. Harsh? Maybe. We're talking about 4-minute long programs here. If you go over the 4 min mark, judges/referees are quick to give a deduction. If your lift goes over 6 seconds (?), automatic deduction.

    If the skaters resume, there should be a new upper limit to scores. They should not be allowed to receive maximum points in the elements. It is really unfair for those who push through the pain and agony (of whatever it is they are suffering) to finish their 4 minute program--a completed program. In other winter sports, the time you get from point A to point B covers any stoppage or interruption--the clock just keeps going until you cross the finish line or you withdraw (oh, any missed gates or targets incur further deductions or additional time penalty).

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