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Thread: Davis & White to regain World title?

  1. #16
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    V/M's problem is their Carmen FD. They just don't seem to have a concerted vision of what the program should be. There are ugly parts of it----Scott grabbing at Tessa's crotch, Tessa lunging at Scott's groin---which are controversial, to say the least. IMO, some of the older judges on the panel might find those moves distasteful, which can tend to dampen PCS scores. V/M are continually making changes but the program still seems to lack cohesiveness. The program doesn't build up well to the climax where Tessa rejects Scott; instead, the climax is abrupt and makes one feel "Huh?".

  2. #17
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    Well in some ways Carmen is a story with some ugly parts to it. But as I wrote earlier today, I think the overt sexuality may make some judges nervous. It's certainly a long way away from the ooey gooey romanticism of Mahler and Funny Face!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    V/M's problem is their Carmen FD. They just don't seem to have a concerted vision of what the program should be. There are ugly parts of it----Scott grabbing at Tessa's crotch, Tessa lunging at Scott's groin---which are controversial, to say the least. IMO, some of the older judges on the panel might find those moves distasteful, which can tend to dampen PCS scores. V/M are continually making changes but the program still seems to lack cohesiveness. The program doesn't build up well to the climax where Tessa rejects Scott; instead, the climax is abrupt and makes one feel "Huh?".
    I can only imagine what Dick Button must think - in the past he's commented negatively on vulgar positions like some of V/M's as they do cheapen the program's elegance, an element that he admires greatly. The first time I saw V/M's free program, their overtly sexual moves made me think of 'Blades of Glory'.

  4. #19
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    I've always found it interesting that Carmen as an opera has the most gorgeous, tempting music but really no sympathetic main characters. Carmen and Don Jose have what can safely be called a mutually toxic relationship, and Escamillo is a vainglorious self-absorbed hunk. (Michaela is probably sympathetic, but she's never portrayed in any skating programs). In some ways, it's more practical to use the music but not the storyline, at least in a judged program. We don't really expect a Carmen skating program to be about, well, Carmen, any more than we expect a Samson and Delilah program to feature an actual bacchanal. This makes any choreography tricky. I hope Tessa and Scott iron out the last wrinkles in this program before Worlds.

  5. #20
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    I don't think you can minimize the effect of a dramatic piece of music on a choreographed freedance. As many have been saying, Carmen has been overused to the point that I can barely listen to it and certainly can't appreciate it anymore. I'm also glad someone else has commented on the seemingly vulgar aspects of V&M's freedance. I didn't like the program from the first time I saw it and wondered why they not only chose that piece of music but it was choreographed the way it is. I think they are very, very talented people but I don't see the connection between them anymore like I used to. Maybe it's the music.

    As for Charlie and Meryl, I said elsewhere that I think the Notre Dame de Paris program is the most well-rounded program I've seen them deliver. It has passion and drama and athleticism and the two of them seem to transport themselves to another world while they're skating. It allows the audience to get caught up in it and I was disappointed when it was over - I wanted it go on!

    I sincerely hope Charlie and Meryl gain their title back.

  6. #21
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Well in some ways Carmen is a story with some ugly parts to it. But as I wrote earlier today, I think the overt sexuality may make some judges nervous. It's certainly a long way away from the ooey gooey romanticism of Mahler and Funny Face!
    indeed. Carmen is about the ugly parts of humanity. other couples' flamenco hands and loving looks are't doing it justice.

  7. #22
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    Listening to Meryl and Charlie's interviews this season there is a recurring theme: we are prepared to work as much and as hard as it takes. Implied is that you may out-talent us, but you're not going to out-work us. Their programs this season show a striking amount of growth. I think it's very true that they have a four year plan that they are working toward every day. It reminds me of their Classroom Champion goal-setting lesson.

    I'm often not an it getter when it comes to Tessa and Scott, but I like a lot of their Carmen program--especially the modern dance choreography. I don't enjoy the overtly sexual moves, not because I am a prude, but because, in my opinion, they lack the sexual chemistry to make those moves effective. They just look awkward and a little cringe-worthy.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    indeed. Carmen is about the ugly parts of humanity. other couples' flamenco hands and loving looks are't doing it justice.
    True, but they're still performing for an audience and a panel of judges, and you didn't see Michelle Kwan, Kaetlyn Osmond, or Kim Yuna sexualizing their Carmen programs. I think that there's a line, and the overtly sexual moves are toeing it.

  9. #24
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    I think it's likely that D/W would win 2013 Worlds. At Grand Prix, V/M weren't so lucky with their SD and now, they have problems with their FD.

    We can't be sure that D/W will win Olympics until we see V/M and D/W's programs for next season.

    I hope V/M doesn't try new things next season. If they do, they might end up like Domnina/Shabalin in 2009-2010 season.
    Last edited by vera01; 02-18-2013 at 06:41 AM.

  10. #25
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Thank you for adding the question mark to the thread title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    When it comes down to D/W and V/M, one can't make a prediction from one day to the next because both are just about neck and neck. Some of you may prefer the style of one or the other, or some of you may be able to detect that one of the teams has strengths in certain aspects of skating in which the other team is marginally less strong (I would never say "weaker" in the case of either of these splendid teams), but there's nothing to choose between them in terms of sheer excellence. ...

    My only wish for them all is that they stay completely, totally healthy, every last molecule of them, so we can see them all at their very best in every competition from now on. Yes, I'm greedy.
    Olympia, thank you for being such an articulate voice of reason.

    I would add:
    Both Virtue/Moir and Davis/White have the desire and the work ethic. Both teams continue to raise the bar. Neither team is resting on its laurels. Both teams have discussed the importance of setting goals.

    As to which team has "better" programs, we're all entitled to our opinions. But in the end, only the judges (and technical panel) determine the outcome of competitions.
    (If I had a nickel for every GS member who felt absolutely sure last season that D/W's FD was superior to V/M's ... and yet DF truly outscored FF only at WTT. Soon after the GPF, the ISU acknowledged that FF would have defeated DF if not for an error in calculating the overall results. And FF won Four Continents and Worlds outright.)
    Last edited by golden411; 02-11-2013 at 11:31 AM.

  11. #26
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    Funny Face didn't feature blatant vulgarity the way Carmen does. V/M took a risk with this controversial program and it may not pay off the way they may have expected.

    V/M's ick factor doesn't automatically mean D/W will regain their championship. If V/M can manage to skate Carmen cleanly and cohesively for the first time at Worlds, they will be formidable competition. D/W must perform their FD to the nth degree and get L4 on all their elements in both SD and FD.
    Last edited by chuckm; 02-11-2013 at 02:11 AM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by vera01 View Post
    I hope V/M doesn't try new things next season. Or they might end up like D/S.
    I disagree. I wish V/M would really push themselves. I mean, Carmen? Really? I want them to really go outside the box. Enough of the male/ female dynamic. I know there's the whole uplifting thing, but I would love to see them try Night on Bald Mountain. They are Olympic and World champions. They can afford to be innovative, but I don't think they are. They get compared to Torvill and Dean, but T/D were way more innovative. That's what I want to see from V/M.

  13. #28
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    Well just to put a dot on the i and cross the t.........while I do favor W&D, I'll just be dang happy to see a North American team win Worlds and the Olympics again. It's been a verrrrrry long time in coming and I'm enjoying the rivalry.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    I disagree. I wish V/M would really push themselves. I mean, Carmen? Really? I want them to really go outside the box. Enough of the male/ female dynamic. I know there's the whole uplifting thing, but I would love to see them try Night on Bald Mountain. They are Olympic and World champions. They can afford to be innovative, but I don't think they are. They get compared to Torvill and Dean, but T/D were way more innovative. That's what I want to see from V/M.
    Agree with this. I think Carmen is their biggest stretch artistically, and I like it. But, if they lose Worlds this year, I fully expect to see a return to their standard romantic/whimsical material for the Olympic year. I think Scott Moir cares a lot more about winning than artistic development (can't say I blame him, it is sport after all), and I expect he will insist on a return to the proven formula.

  15. #30
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    D/W solidified as the the top team for 2013-2014 Season
    the only held back for them is the venue, imo its impossible for them to beat V/M in Canadian soil.
    now Olympics is another story

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