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Thread: Davis & White to regain World title?

  1. #31
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    imo its impossible for them to beat V/M in Canadian soil.
    But they've done it before. 2009 4cc, 2011 GPF. And it's not like competiting in Canada always helps skaters. Patrick Chan lost Skate Canada, Dubreuil and Lauzon finished second at worlds in Calgary, and Bourne and Kraatz finished completely off the podium at worlds 2001 in Vancouver.

  2. #32
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    Being in Canada makes no difference. D&W have beaten V&M numerous times in Canada already, and last year their only win in a season they were dominated by V&M was an easy win at a major event in Canada. If V&M somehow upset D&W for the World title this year, it will be because they deserved it, and the judging panel on the day prefered them, not because of the location.

  3. #33
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Being in Canada makes no difference. D&W have beaten V&M numerous times in Canada already, and last year their only win in a season they were dominated by V&M was an easy win at a major event in Canada. If V&M somehow upset D&W for the World title this year, it will be because they deserved it, and the judging panel on the day prefered them, not because of the location.
    more like a scandal if V/M win over D/W
    D/W have been closing the gap with V/M every season their pcs difference isn't that much debatable now
    D/W always were faster, have good flow and I really like their programs.

  4. #34
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    As I said before, IMO V/M are handicapped by their Carmen FD. The judges have consistently awarded V/M lower PCS scores than they've given D/W, perhaps a reaction to the sometimes vulgar choreography. The choreography itself incorporates overly difficult lifts and abrupt changes of position that V/M don't seem to be able to execute smoothly. They've never seemed to be at all comfortable with the program.

    Having Worlds in Canada won't guarantee V/M the win. They have to come up with a FD that works well for them and perform it lights out. It doesn't help that there will be no Canadian judge on the dance panels.
    Last edited by chuckm; 02-11-2013 at 04:16 PM.

  5. #35
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Being in Canada makes no difference. D&W have beaten V&M numerous times in Canada already, and last year their only win in a season they were dominated by V&M was an easy win at a major event in Canada. If V&M somehow upset D&W for the World title this year, it will be because they deserved it, and the judging panel on the day prefered them, not because of the location.
    Adding to pangtongfan's good point:
    In Quebec last season, Virtue/Moir were hoping to win their first GPF title (which still eludes them). Accomplishing that goal in front of a home crowd would have been especially sweet, but the judging was in Davis/White's favor.

  6. #36
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    I think this WC is a pivotal moment in this rivalry.

    If V/M suffer a third defeat at the hands of D/W, it a very big deal from a sports psychology point-of-view heading into an Olympic season.

    I imagine that at the level these skaters are competing, even the tiniest doubt that they can beat them will have consequences.

  7. #37
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    I'm sure V/M aren't seeing their 4CC silver as a "true" loss to D/W. They did have that break that still makes an impact on their scores despite no explicit deductions.
    With ice dancing, they are essentially on par with a very close margin of defeat. I don't think there are any true psychological consequences for either team.

  8. #38
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    If either couple starts having doubts, I hope they will listen to the fans. Many of us can't believe our good luck that we have two such astonishing sets of ice dancers to enjoy at the very same time. They should keep their hearts high and plow on. Both couples!

  9. #39
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Olympia, very true :love"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    I disagree. I wish V/M would really push themselves. I mean, Carmen? Really? I want them to really go outside the box. Enough of the male/ female dynamic. I know there's the whole uplifting thing, but I would love to see them try Night on Bald Mountain. They are Olympic and World champions. They can afford to be innovative, but I don't think they are. They get compared to Torvill and Dean, but T/D were way more innovative. That's what I want to see from V/M.
    I don't think this is practical. T&D's closest rivals were Bestemianova & Bukin, who could NEVER begin to approach the British team technically; consequently T&D had the freedom to take ice dance exactly where they wanted it to go, and the judges would follow them. Because V&M and D&W are so close, neither team can rely on the judges taking their lead, and neither really has the freedom to suddenly skate to silence ("Oscar Tango" in pros) or to one piece of music without really "light" or "shade" ("Bolero") or to flirt with rules about lifts & so forth without losing points.

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Being in Canada makes no difference. D&W have beaten V&M numerous times in Canada already, and last year their only win in a season they were dominated by V&M was an easy win at a major event in Canada. If V&M somehow upset D&W for the World title this year, it will be because they deserved it, and the judging panel on the day prefered them, not because of the location.
    Good point; however D&W did win a second time in the 2011-2012 season, at WTT, so each team won 2 events in faceoffs against each other last season.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post

    Having Worlds in Canada won't guarantee V/M the win. They have to come up with a FD that works well for them and perform it lights out. It doesn't help that there will be no Canadian judge on the dance panels.
    This is a good point. It never helps when a team doesn't have a judge on either the judging or technical panel.

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Adding to pangtongfan's good point:
    In Quebec last season, Virtue/Moir were hoping to win their first GPF title (which still eludes them). Accomplishing that goal in front of a home crowd would have been especially sweet, but the judging was in Davis/White's favor.
    Actually, in Quebec, Scott Moir had a catastrophic fall in the SD. This put V&M so far behind that whether the scoring glitsch were fixed or not, D&W would have won. The judges didn't come into it that much. It's possible that the pressure of competing at home, that inspired the Canadians at the Vancouver Olympics, got to V&M at that event.

    I refuse to predict anything about the future for either team, but I can't wait to see what programs they'll chose next season. And I hope neither will retire after Sochi. I'll be devastated when either decides it's time to go on to the next stage of their lives.

  10. #40
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    Honestly I don't care which team wins at Worlds, (or even at Sochi for that matter). I'm just thrilled that I'll be getting another chance of watching the two best ice dancing teams in the world out there on the ice yet again, and you're practically guaranteed of getting the best showdown of the competition.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I refuse to predict anything about the future for either team, but I can't wait to see what programs they'll chose next season. And I hope neither will retire after Sochi. I'll be devastated when either decides it's time to go on to the next stage of their lives.
    Doris, not to disappoint you, but isn't it virtually certain V/M will retire after Sochi? They recently talked about this year's Worlds probably being their last. And with all the injuries they've had, it's hard to see them continuing.

    I always assumed D/W would retire after Sochi, too. But lately, I've been wondering if they might decide to go on a bit longer. They're in incredible shape physically, they've never had any serious injuries (knock on wood!!!), and frankly, they're just so darn good at this point. And it's not like there are many professional opportunities. If they want to keep skating after Sochi, competing is probably their best bet.

    I agree with you, it's difficult to imagine ice dance now without V/M and D/W. It's not like there's not other good teams out there, there are in fact many good teams, but that's the thing--they're all just good, not great like V/M and D/W.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    more like a scandal if V/M win over D/W
    I find it funny how an event held in Canada does not guarantee a win. Yet if Canadian skaters do win, the argument becomes..."they were overmarked because the event was in Canada", "the crowd influenced the judges", "Skate Canada had the judges in their back pocket", etc. It would appear sky_fly20 is already setting the stage to use those excuses.
    Last edited by KatEll; 02-12-2013 at 11:30 AM.

  13. #43
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatEll View Post
    I find it funny how an event held in Canada does not guarantee a win. Yet if Canadian skaters do win, the argument becomes..."they were overmarked because the event was in Canada", "the crowd influenced the judges", "Skate Canada had the judges in their back pocket", etc. etc. It would appear sky_fly20 is already setting the stage to use those excuses.
    did I say overmarked ? for whatever reason they I said will have the homeground advantage, by crowd support and other factors to it
    this is a crucial Worlds and the results will impact for the Olympics they cannot afford to lose to D/W
    so this is why for me I will be really shocked if D/W win Worlds at London

    imo V/M is almost sure lock for gold barring clear mistakes

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    True, but they're still performing for an audience and a panel of judges, and you didn't see Michelle Kwan, Kaetlyn Osmond, or Kim Yuna sexualizing their Carmen programs. I think that there's a line, and the overtly sexual moves are toeing it.
    There's a fine line. Anissina and Peizerat had provocative moves and costumes, and it often enhanced their programs.

    I think it's way too close to call. Who knows what could have happened if there was no interruption in this FD. I still think D/W would have pulled ahead, but it was a 3 point victory, after an interruption. I might have been much closer.

    Both are excellent FDs, but I always prefer difficulty (since both teams already possess excellent skating skills, interpretation, edges, etc.). But D/W are also less sloppy. I'm sure V/M will be ready for Worlds but they might have given up any edge they had with this competition, unfortunately. This being said, Sochi is no sure shot... the only practical certainty is that they will go 1-2 again.

    And if D/W continue on after Sochi, it's hard to imagine them not winning the next 3 world titles, since yes, other teams are good, but nobody's challenging for 'great'.
    Last edited by CanadianSkaterGuy; 02-12-2013 at 10:44 AM.

  15. #45
    Gambatte, Max Aaron/"No letting off the gas pedal" golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Actually, in Quebec, Scott Moir had a catastrophic fall in the SD. This put V&M so far behind that whether the scoring glitsch were fixed or not, D&W would have won. The judges didn't come into it that much. It's possible that the pressure of competing at home, that inspired the Canadians at the Vancouver Olympics, got to V&M at that event.
    Yes, yes, true about Moir's SD fall in Quebec and about D/W's definitive win even if the scoring glitch had been fixed. (And of course it was a calculation error anyway, not a judging error.)

    pangtongfan and I were responding to this comment:

    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    D/W solidified as the the top team for 2013-2014 Season
    the only held back for them is the venue, imo its impossible for them to beat V/M in Canadian soil.
    now Olympics is another story
    All I was trying to say is that Canadian soil did not ensure a V/M win in Quebec -- even when the prospect of their first GPF title offered extra motivation for them to win [not that V/M ever need extra motivation ].

    Completely agree that a home venue is a double-edged sword: more fans, but also more pressure.
    And the possibility of additional complications. Forgive me for repeating this anecdote, but the irony of it is still striking to me:
    I remember an interviewer asking V/M how they felt when they heard the loud cheering and applause during their Vancouver CD. I think the reporter was expecting them to simply gush that all the friendly sound carried them to a greater skate than ever. To be sure, V/M did express appreciation for the intensity of audible support, but the forthright Moir also remarked that they felt nervous because the deafening spectator noise was drowning out the all-important music, which V/M had to struggle to hear.
    So the positive crowd reaction, although clearly well-intentioned, inadvertently made V/M's performance more challenging.

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