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Thread: Davis & White to regain World title?

  1. #76
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    So there's still a chance that D&W would continue skating after Sochi(maybe retire after 2018 Olympics?)?

    I think V&M would retire even if they don't win gold medal at Sochi 2014, as Tessa currently has some leg issues.

    And as for World title, I think it depends on the results of previous events. If Chan doesn't win gold medal, it's likely that V/M would win gold medal as long as V/M skates without any major mistakes

  2. #77
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    And what will happen if Kevin Reynolds wins the gold medal

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    And what will happen if Kevin Reynolds wins the gold medal
    What a conundrum for the poor judges

    But seriously I want more excitement at competitions. Need to see some other team(s) get into the mix. DW are great but ice dance must evolve. I want to see that team(s) that melds the bests aspects of DW and VM. Then I'll get more excited about ice dance

  4. #79
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    Oh sheesh - we here in North America have watched the Russians and the French win everything in Ice Dance for years!!!!! I hope neither team retires. And there ARE teams the meld the best aspects of both. I look forward to watching the Shib Sibs in the coming years, for example. Let's all enjoy this NA domination while we can.

    Also - not sure what Chan OR Reynolds would have to do with who wins the Dance. Are you saying the judges are putting a fix in? Dont' want to think about that.

  5. #80
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    ^^ The Reynolds comment was a feeble attempt at a joke I guess.

    I wasn't really around for European domination.

    I think I first became intrigued after watching D&W and V&M around 2009 maybe. So they are all I've really known together with the usual suspects K/N, P/B, W/P, etc. Each has a style that they pretty much don't stray too far from maybe with the exception of V/M, so that's where I'm coming from. Nationalities; which is dominating which is not doesn't interest me much. I just like interesting dancing

  6. #81
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    V/M's parking spot is reserved from 6AM. No rest for the reigning OGMs, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    we here in North America have watched the Russians and the French win everything in Ice Dance for years!!!!! I hope neither team retires. And there ARE teams the meld the best aspects of both. I look forward to watching the Shib Sibs in the coming years, for example. Let's all enjoy this NA domination while we can.
    And here I thought it we should enjoy good skating regardless of nationality, not "NA domination". If you would like to point out the NA teams that were better than Navka/Kostomarov, Anissina/Peizerat, Krylova/Ovsyannikov, Grishuk/Platov, Usova/Zhulin, Klimova/Ponemarenko... please, do go ahead. I'm curious, maybe I can hit Youtube and enjoy some underrated teams. BTW, other than A/P, I am not sure who these French teams are; DelSchoes only won Worlds once, they deserved it, and they were a famously underrated team during their career. Actually, A/P have the OGM, but only won Worlds once themselves. So much for world domination.

    Personally I find V/M stunningly good but not particularly engaging most of the time (I was super impressed when I saw them live, however). I also find D/W considerably more flawed than the judges do, and hate Meryl's lift positions - though I respect their technical skill. I sincerely hope both teams retire post-Sochi and leave the field open so that we can have some excitement and suspense. Lest I be accused of being wholly prejudiced in favor of Euro teams, my favorite sets of programs in the Olympic season were V/M's and F/S's, I liked the Shibs when I saw them at 2009 JW (but I don't think Marina knows what to do with a sibling team), admired Crone/Poirier for their risk-taking and Samuelson/Bates for their cute 2008-9 OD and Emily's divine toe point. I miss Emily. Oh, and I think Lynn and Logan are lovely.

    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    I think I first became intrigued after watching D&W and V&M around 2009 maybe. So they are all I've really known together with the usual suspects K/N, P/B, W/P, etc. Each has a style that they pretty much don't stray too far from maybe with the exception of V/M, so that's where I'm coming from. Nationalities; which is dominating which is not doesn't interest me much. I just like interesting dancing
    Honestly, I don't think any team is showing great stylistic range these days. Even P/B are less adventurous then they used to be. My brief love affair with ice dance (begun at 2008 Worlds, peaked the following season) appears to be at an end. Maybe the Finnstep SD will rekindle it.

  7. #82
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    Sorry, Buttercup, but NA dance teams aren't go to retire just because you wish they would.

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    The NA dominance is just as much how extremely weak the European teams have become as anything else. The current top Russian teams are by far the weakest in their history, and before them even teams like Domnina & Shabalin and Lobacheva & Averbuhk were their weakest #1 teams in history, despite that both teams won a single World title and single Olympic medal. It is quite possible if D&W retired that a team like Weaver & Poje if they recover would take over as the #1 team. The Europeans are just weak now in dance, and hence why they are not on top.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    V/M's parking spot is reserved from 6AM. No rest for the reigning OGMs, I guess.


    And here I thought it we should enjoy good skating regardless of nationality, not "NA domination". If you would like to point out the NA teams that were better than Navka/Kostomarov, Anissina/Peizerat, Krylova/Ovsyannikov, Grishuk/Platov, Usova/Zhulin, Klimova/Ponemarenko... please, do go ahead. I'm curious, maybe I can hit Youtube and enjoy some underrated teams. BTW, other than A/P, I am not sure who these French teams are; DelSchoes only won Worlds once, they deserved it, and they were a famously underrated team during their career. Actually, A/P have the OGM, but only won Worlds once themselves. So much for world domination.

    Personally I find V/M stunningly good but not particularly engaging most of the time (I was super impressed when I saw them live, however). I also find D/W considerably more flawed than the judges do, and hate Meryl's lift positions - though I respect their technical skill. I sincerely hope both teams retire post-Sochi and leave the field open so that we can have some excitement and suspense. Lest I be accused of being wholly prejudiced in favor of Euro teams, my favorite sets of programs in the Olympic season were V/M's and F/S's, I liked the Shibs when I saw them at 2009 JW (but I don't think Marina knows what to do with a sibling team), admired Crone/Poirier for their risk-taking and Samuelson/Bates for their cute 2008-9 OD and Emily's divine toe point. I miss Emily. Oh, and I think Lynn and Logan are lovely.


    Honestly, I don't think any team is showing great stylistic range these days. Even P/B are less adventurous then they used to be. My brief love affair with ice dance (begun at 2008 Worlds, peaked the following season) appears to be at an end. Maybe the Finnstep SD will rekindle it.
    I think many would say Blumberg and siebert were underrated and robbed in 1984 b/k were robbed in 98 and 02 and I think maybe from reading us journalist and canadian journalist that after t/d retired there was never a time when a na team was not deserving of a World title from the aforementioned b/s all the way to b/a and Marie France team

  10. #85
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    Buttercup, for me it isn't a matter of wishing permanent NA dominance but just delight that after generations (literally) where few from North America could make a mark, we suddenly have the top two teams in the world. Of course, behind those two teams are two wonderful Russian coaches, so it isn't as simple as that, I understand. But keep in mind, in the U.S. at least, we're going nowhere fast in the other three disciplines. It's a bright light in a dark tunnel to see D/W and V/M doing so well.

    This doesn't mean they're better than Klimova/Ponomarenko (who could be?) or any of the other grand Soviet/Russian/European pairs. But they're right up there near the peak of the pyramid. If some great Russian couple comes along, I know I'll love them, the way I adore Takahashi in men's singles and Asada and Kim in ladies' singles. But it is nice (maybe it's the lower part of my nature; ah, well) to be able to rejoice in North American ice dancing splendor for however long it lasts. I don't need the next top couples to be North American, but I sure do love watching these.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Sorry, Buttercup, but NA dance teams aren't go to retire just because you wish they would.
    Thank you, Chuck, for completely missing my point - which, in the part that you referenced, is that I'd like these two teams to retire and new contenders to emerge. Five seasons of the same two teams dominating, regardless of nationality, is more than enough in any discipline. I'd be bored with ladies if it had been only Yuna and Mao forever, lovely and talented as they both are.

    Also, way to miss the list of NA skaters that I did mention, some of whom have unfortunately retired. Or are you only familiar with the top two?

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    The NA dominance is just as much how extremely weak the European teams have become as anything else. The current top Russian teams are by far the weakest in their history, and before them even teams like Domnina & Shabalin and Lobacheva & Averbuhk were their weakest #1 teams in history, despite that both teams won a single World title and single Olympic medal.
    I think this is largely true; I love P/B, but they are not perfect by any means - and for all that B/S have improved, I can't imagine them being Russian no. 1s in the past. I'm actually not a huge fan of some of the past Russian teams (N/K made me drop ice dance back in the day), though I do think DomShabs were pretty good, or at least, quite promising until the injuries hit. Their Tango Romatica performances at Euros and Olys were fantastic, and I choose to remember that rather than the horrid OD.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I think many would say Blumberg and siebert were underrated and robbed in 1984 b/k were robbed in 98 and 02 and I think maybe from reading us journalist and canadian journalist that after t/d retired there was never a time when a na team was not deserving of a World title from the aforementioned b/s all the way to b/a and Marie France team
    B/K were robbed in 2002? That's a new one; I thought it was D/V who were robbed that year. I've heard the argument that they were robbed in 1998, and while that's not an unusual opinion, it is by no means universal - a fair number of fans and experts would say that they were placed correctly in 1998 and said that 15 years ago, too. I did stop with K/P as I'm less familiar with dance teams of the past. But Blumberg and Seibert were robbed? By who, T/D with Bolero? B/A were underrated? I'm really at a loss as to how anyone could think that. The latter won silvers at Worlds and the Olympics, was there any year in which their skating merited more than that?

    I lived in the US during past Olympics, so I know how the media there often frames the competitive narratives, and it's quite potent (as a kid I certainly believed that Retton was better than Szabo). But we're not casual fans, and I think it's important to look past that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Buttercup, for me it isn't a matter of wishing permanent NA dominance but just delight that after generations (literally) where few from North America could make a mark, we suddenly have the top two teams in the world. Of course, behind those two teams are two wonderful Russian coaches, so it isn't as simple as that, I understand. But keep in mind, in the U.S. at least, we're going nowhere fast in the other three disciplines. It's a bright light in a dark tunnel to see D/W and V/M doing so well.

    This doesn't mean they're better than Klimova/Ponomarenko (who could be?) or any of the other grand Soviet/Russian/European pairs. But they're right up there near the peak of the pyramid. If some great Russian couple comes along, I know I'll love them, the way I adore Takahashi in men's singles and Asada and Kim in ladies' singles. But it is nice (maybe it's the lower part of my nature; ah, well) to be able to rejoice in North American ice dancing splendor for however long it lasts. I don't need the next top couples to be North American, but I sure do love watching these.
    Olympia, I never for a moment thought that you would pick skaters to cheer for based on nationality alone! I know that you're an open-minded fan and appreciate that very much - I think that's just the sort of thing we should aspire to be.

    I just wish we could get away for this whole "Euros bad, NA good" (or vice versa) level of discourse. Being a fan from a country with no horse in this race, I find it really tiresome.

  12. #87
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    T/d did not rob b/s but they were robbed of bronze to a lot of people. When the journalists in 2010 and now say north Americans have a fair shot and they no longer are held down and dw and vm are taking revenge for all the robbed teams from north America you can see why I would write what I wrote. When Dacia and white say now ice dancers really have to earn their wins and medals and that wasn't true when Russians were winning it is also clear there. They are talking about North American teams always being robbed and never legitimately losing. Or few teams actually legitimately LosT to Russian teams. I know I'm not a casual fan but davis and white are saying these things to casual fans and non casual fans.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    ^ The Reynolds comment was a feeble attempt at a joke I guess.
    It was a humorous response to Vera implying that a Canadian has to win something at Worlds this year, no matter what.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    T/d did not rob b/s but they were robbed of bronze to a lot of people. When the journalists in 2010 and now say north Americans have a fair shot and they no longer are held down and dw and vm are taking revenge for all the robbed teams from north America you can see why I would write what I wrote. When Dacia and white say now ice dancers really have to earn their wins and medals and that wasn't true when Russians were winning it is also clear there. They are talking about North American teams always being robbed and never legitimately losing. Or few teams actually legitimately LosT to Russian teams. I know I'm not a casual fan but davis and white are saying these things to casual fans and non casual fans.
    So basically, the proof that ice dance is now fair and free of politics is that North Americans are winning? "We're the best so clearly ice dance is perfect now"? Er, color me unpersuaded. If people think NA teams were always robbed, then they must not have been paying attention, or didn't understand what they were seeing. If it's supposedly knowledgeable journalists, then they should be ashamed of themselves for such a simplistic PoV. I remember one US reporter arguing that the results of the OD in Vancouver showed that ice dance was finally fair, because V/M and D/W were rewarded after DomShabs inexplicably led following the CD. How can I take someone like that seriously? A lot of the wuzrobbing claims strike me as "because I liked my guys better", which is hardly objective.

    All this doesn't take away from what D/W have accomplished; they are undeniably talented and hard-working. I just don't find their success to be proof of ice dance becoming entirely merit-based.

  15. #90
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    How many days till worlds? We are starting to get stir CRAZY. I hope it's EPIC!!

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