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Thread: Davis & White to regain World title?

  1. #91
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    yep I agree doctor, stir crazy. We need stuff to write about or things get rehashed or we really start talking about anything Some great battles this year though in men's women's and dance as usual.

  2. #92
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    V/M's parking spot is reserved from 6AM. No rest for the reigning OGMs, I guess.
    LOL, what I recall from some old interviews: Moir by nature is an early bird who hops out of bed every morning with no problem. In contrast , the snooze button is Virtue's friend. Their daily competition for their special parking spot would be a good incentive to get moving, I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    It is quite possible if D&W retired that a team like Weaver & Poje if they recover would take over as the #1 team.
    BTW, I had copied the tweet below into a different thread, but as a little FYI here too:
    Ryan Pyette ‏@RyanatLFPress
    Skate Canada's Mike Slipchuk said Tessa Virtue cramping at 4C won't have significance (for worlds). Weaver-Poje fate to come soon.
    3:38 PM - 14 Feb 13

    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    How many days till worlds?
    23 days until Worlds, according to the official countdown clock (timed to the second) here :
    Last edited by golden411; 02-15-2013 at 10:04 AM.

  3. #93
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    ^^ Thank you golden411

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by vera01 View Post
    If Chan doesn't win gold medal, it's likely that V/M would win gold medal as long as V/M skates without any major mistakes
    How is this likely with no Canadian judges on the dance panel? Is it because the US judge will take pity and vote for V/M over D/W?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by all that View Post
    How is this likely with no Canadian judges on the dance panel? Is it because the US judge will take pity and vote for V/M over D/W?
    No. Worlds is going to be held in Canada, and London is Tessa's hometown, so judges can't just ignore that.

    And I don't think having a US judge on ice dance panel would help D/W, or work as a disadvantage to V/M.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    So basically, the proof that ice dance is now fair and free of politics is that North Americans are winning? "We're the best so clearly ice dance is perfect now"? Er, color me unpersuaded. If people think NA teams were always robbed, then they must not have been paying attention, or didn't understand what they were seeing. If it's supposedly knowledgeable journalists, then they should be ashamed of themselves for such a simplistic PoV. I remember one US reporter arguing that the results of the OD in Vancouver showed that ice dance was finally fair, because V/M and D/W were rewarded after DomShabs inexplicably led following the CD. How can I take someone like that seriously? A lot of the wuzrobbing claims strike me as "because I liked my guys better", which is hardly objective.

    All this doesn't take away from what D/W have accomplished; they are undeniably talented and hard-working. I just don't find their success to be proof of ice dance becoming entirely merit-based.
    The first sentence is the view and what I have read and heard from journalists and columnist and find it very annoying when it comes from skaters to.

    Maybe in order to be humble and not so we're the best Americans ever Davis and white have both said other Americans were as good as them but just couldn't win because the system was horrible and russian teams had politics but now politics is less so Americans can finally win. Read it all the time.

  7. #97
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    The first sentence is the view and what I have read and heard from journalists and columnist and find it very annoying when it comes from skaters to.

    Maybe in order to be humble and not so we're the best Americans ever Davis and white have both said other Americans were as good as them but just couldn't win because the system was horrible and russian teams had politics but now politics is less so Americans can finally win. Read it all the time.
    Well, I can hardly expect them to follow pangtongfan's reasoning and claim that they are not that great a team but the Russians are even worse

    The argument that I do think is appropriate is that the IJS makes it possible for a team to get constant and focused feedback on their skating and the programs, so they can improve their skating in an effective way - and with the right combination of talent, hard work and smart coaching, you can go very far with that. Also, that ice dance teams are judged more on merit than on seniority than they used to be (else D/W would have had to wait until B/A retired before getting any recognition). There's no need for anyone - skaters, journalists or fans -to drag nationality into it.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by vera01 View Post
    No. Worlds is going to be held in Canada, and London is Tessa's hometown, so judges can't just ignore that.

    And I don't think having a US judge on ice dance panel would help D/W, or work as a disadvantage to V/M.
    Why should judges care that London is Tessa's hometown? I doubt most of them even know that; even if they did, according to the IJS component descriptions, no points are awarded for skating in one's hometown.

    It doesn't help V/M that there is no CAN judge on the panel. Oh, and BTW, there is no CAN judge on the men's or ladies panel as well---only on the Pairs.

  9. #99
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    I think this photo is striking:
    It's a close-up shot of White enjoying a nice hug moments after his Four Continents FD ... juxtaposed against a fuzzy background showing his buddy/rival Moir about to take the ice.

    [ The important question is whether Mathman can give all of us more much-needed laughter with another dose of his nonpartisan witty commentary. ]
    Last edited by golden411; 02-15-2013 at 07:22 PM.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Well, I can hardly expect them to follow pangtongfan's reasoning and claim that they are not that great a team but the Russians are even worse

    The argument that I do think is appropriate is that the IJS makes it possible for a team to get constant and focused feedback on their skating and the programs, so they can improve their skating in an effective way - and with the right combination of talent, hard work and smart coaching, you can go very far with that. Also, that ice dance teams are judged more on merit than on seniority than they used to be (else D/W would have had to wait until B/A retired before getting any recognition). There's no need for anyone - skaters, journalists or fans -to drag nationality into it.
    They always drag nationality into it! When worlds last year was on and the previous year it was all about it! Sometimes they did bring in seniority and their only foray into non-american wins were legitimate would be about american pairings not staying together as long as russian teams were together. The teams having tendencies to break up was more about pairs than dance but it was brought into the dance discussion to. That the only reason why Russian Soviet teams won was not only ice dance politics and nationaliity but also they were together longer but neither reason had any kind of focus on them being the most talented and deserving. The only team to have its victories be seen as totally legitimate and deserved by north americans were really Torville and Dean. That's it!!

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    There's no need for anyone - skaters, journalists or fans -to drag nationality into it.
    Aha. One need only to look at writing of some Russian fans to know that in Canada mushrooms (by that they mean --more or less -- that the skaters are not judged by merit but because of nationality and pushing of their skating federation) are growing like crazy. Particularly comments about mushrooms' grow were thick with respect to Caetlyn (that was after she won in Canada) and recently about Reynolds. But V/M also gets their share. Not to mention that a lot of fans over there said that they stopped dance not because Virtue was sick but because they wanted to rest and "knew that they can do it without penalty." In fact on one russian forum it was nearly a hate feast.!!!

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    The only team to have its victories be seen as totally legitimate and deserved by north americans were really Torville and Dean. That's it!!
    Torvill and Dean are British. That means they are European, not North American.

  13. #103
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    OK lets be real here. Canada and the U.S never had the Worlds best ice dance team before Vancouver, except for probably Bourne & Kraatz in 2003 in a weak transition year. Some had said since B&S. Well since B&S:

    1985-1996: U.S teams were so far from being worthy of contenders this period it is too laughable to even contemplate someone considering them winning anything. I will make a small note of Roca & Sur who were underrated and should have been regularly in the top 10 in the World, and maybe eked into the top 5 (but not on the podium) at some point. They were a much better pro team than amateur though. Canada had Wilson & McCall in the late 80s who were a good team, and deserved their bronze medals, but were probably lucky too that the judges dont generally like sweeps so might well have held W&M up into 3rd place to keep the 3rd Soviet dance team Annenko & Stretenski off major podiums. Bourne & Kraatz emerged as a promising team in the mid 90s but werent fully matured yet, and IMO were majorly gifted the 96 bronze due to home ice.

    1997-1998: IMO Punsalen & Swallow were excellent and could have easily been given a bronze at one of the major events this time. I think they were competitive with a still developing Anissina & Peizerat and Bourne & Kraatz, but not competitive with Gritschuk & Platov or Krylova & Ovsiannikov. Bourne & Kraatz meanwhile were exactly as they should have been. Bronze contenders. Many today even found they were overrated in their careers.

    1999-2002: Peter & Naomi were a good team and somewhat underrated. However not a top 3 team, should have been a top 6 or 7 team for a few years. Bourne & Kraatz again where they belonged, as bronze contenders, they were clearly never as good as a matured Anissina & Peizerat, and about the same level as several others, and the real underrated team of this time was Drobiazko & Vanagas.

    2003-2009: Well this was the Belbin & Agosto era in U.S dance. The first U.S team you could seriously consider and hope to win a major title. Blumberg & Seibert were good enough, but had no chance in their time as the competition was way too strong. IMO they did as well as they should have in the end. It was dissapointing they didnt win a big title but were not robbed of it by poor judging, but just didnt improve after 2005 the way people expected, and the vagarities of chances didnt go their way in the later years. Their big chance at a major title was the 2008 Worlds which they blew with a fall. There was a case for them being robbed of winning the 2009 World title, but Delobel & Schoenfelder would have easily won this year based on the season to date had they been able to compete, just as Domnina & Shabalin would have easily won in 2008 had they been healthy and able to compete. Navka & Kostomarov were better than them in the mid 2000s, and Denkova & Stavyski and Delobel & Schoenfelder many thought were better too but politiked down below B&A to keep them away from N&K. If anything in 2005 and 2006 Belbin & Agosto were overrated to win the medals they did.

    Bourne & Kraatz capatilized on a number of teams retiring and also had their best programs ever in 2003 to deservedly win silver at the post Olympic Worlds of 02 and their long awaited World gold in 2003, then retired due to personal strife betwen them and age. Dubreuil & Lauzon never had the footwork, speed, or overall technical abilities (apart from lifts), and did well to win 2 World silvers based mostly on their very romantic style of skating and great programs those two years. Lost a chance of an Oly medal due to a horrible crash.

    Still Bourne & Kraatz, Belbin & Agosto, and to a lesser extent Dubeuil & Lauzon represented an improvement in the level of NA dance teams caliber. This improvement has continued with V&M and D&W who are clearly another level up from these teams. That has coincided with a MASSIVE decline in Russian, ex Soviet, and European dancing, which is also a HUGE part of the NA dominance and success in dance now, even with their own vastly improved teams compared to the past. Anyone who does not see all those needs to take the blinders of.


    BTW Blumberg & Seibert were often jobbed I agree, they deserved silver at the 83 Worlds, bronze at the 82 Worlds, screwed themselves with a fall in 81 which set the tone of the pecking order that quad, and were robbed of atleast a bronze but IMO even a silver at the 84 Games. However there was no hope of them actually WINNING a major title that era with Torvill & Dean dominating.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 02-16-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  14. #104
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    As for complaints about ice dance scoring they have always existed and they mostly come from the defeated parties. Today tons of European skating fans, just as many as NA skating fans in the past decades, complain about the (in their opinion) inflated and exagerrated scores of Virtue & Moir and Davis & White and the huge gaps judges have them over all others no matter what, many skating fans (even some NA) were disgusted by the Shibutanis World bronze in 2011, and as I mentioned there are some who thought Belbin & Agosto were overrated at times in their career.

    The perpetuated myth that everyone thinks ice dance judging is finally perfect and politics free since NA teams is on top is a huge ROTFFFFLLLLL!

  15. #105
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I've got to agree.

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