Wagner vs. Suzuki | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Wagner vs. Suzuki

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
pangtongfan said:
Flattfan is an ENORMOUS Kostner fan. Take his comments about Kostner with a grain of salt.

So what? You seem to be a huge Yuna fan, aren't we supposed to take your comments serious nevertheless?
Despite that, I think FlattFan isn't that far off - by now it's just hard to say what might happen. 3T3T and 3Lo might leave Caro behind a litte after the SP, but she plans seven triples in the FS, gets higher +GOE than Mao and has a higher BV than Yuna. Plus, she has the best skating skills of all ladies competing now and would/should win the PCS. If they're all clean, I think Caro has good chances to win the FS (although Mao's insane BV will keep her very close).
That means: since Yuna doesn't have the loop, yes she'll need to be pretty close to clean to beat a 6-triple Kostner FS. She'll have it easier in the SP though. (IMO, of course).
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
So what? You seem to be a huge Yuna fan, aren't we supposed to take your comments serious nevertheless?
Despite that, I think FlattFan isn't that far off - by now it's just hard to say what might happen. 3T3T and 3Lo might leave Caro behind a litte after the SP, but she plans seven triples in the FS, gets higher +GOE than Mao and has a higher BV than Yuna. Plus, she has the best skating skills of all ladies competing now and would/should win the PCS. If they're all clean, I think Caro has good chances to win the FS (although Mao's insane BV will keep her very close).
That means: since Yuna doesn't have the loop, yes she'll need to be pretty close to clean to beat a 6-triple Kostner FS. She'll have it easier in the SP though. (IMO, of course).

Thank you.
I've never said Caro is anywhere near as consistent as Mao and Yuna. All I said is if Caro is clean, the other girls have to be clean to beat her. I don't think that was fanbot speaking at all. :disapp:
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Because Yuna will be a few points ahead of Carolina with a higher BV in the short and possibly the long, I'd say Yuna is probably one major error ahead of Carolina over the course of a competition. Having said that, I do prefer Carolina's skating and I would hope she gets PCS equal to Yuna.
 

hybfc

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
That is a big IF for caro...

If caro does 3T3T, 3lo, 2A in the SP, and 6 clean triples in the LP, yes, Yuna would have to be pristine clean to beat her. If yuna makes one mistake (pop/fall) she won't place above Caro.
Easily? Are you out of your mind?
 

verysmuchso

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
It must be really horrible to be an Akiko Suzuki right now. The Japanese nation's infatuation with Mao Asada is such that when a truly expressive skater like Suzuki comes along, it seems they are blind to the value of such talent. The rightful winner of the NHK Trophy 2012, she was the flower of the 2013 Four Continents.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I think Akiko is doing as well as she hope to be. She's more of a show girl than a star. Steady skater with good programs, and put her heart and soul into it, but she doesn't have the "IT" factor that can translate to points that the top girls have. Her "IT" factor is her P/E, but it isn't worth much.

I would give her close to 10 for some of her past performances, but that would only lift her to one or two points higher.

Someone like Mao Asada who can hit a 3A or 3F-3Lo, and suddenly her score potential go up by like 8 points.

She was the rightful winner of the NHK 2012, no doubt about that.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
drivingmissdaisy said:
Because Yuna will be a few points ahead of Carolina with a higher BV in the short and possibly the long, I'd say Yuna is probably one major error ahead of Carolina over the course of a competition. Having said that, I do prefer Carolina's skating and I would hope she gets PCS equal to Yuna.

Why would Yuna have a higher BV in the LP than Caro? It's 6 triples planned vs. 7 triples. How they can execute those elements is another question of course.

FlattFan said:
Thank you.
I've never said Caro is anywhere near as consistent as Mao and Yuna. All I said is if Caro is clean, the other girls have to be clean to beat her. I don't think that was fanbot speaking at all.

I hate to say it, but I wouldn't call Mao consistent either, Yuna easily wins in that regard. Caro and Mao both are capable of bombing themselves right off the podium. But that seems to make some people disregard what they are really cabaple of when they deliver. That's a shame, but we'll see at worlds anyway :)
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I hate to say it, but I wouldn't call Mao consistent either, Yuna easily wins in that regard. Caro and Mao both are capable of bombing themselves right off the podium. But that seems to make some people disregard what they are really cabaple of when they deliver. That's a shame, but we'll see at worlds anyway :)

Caro had the worst meltdown of any skater in recent memory at the 2009 W. She repeated that at the 2010 Olympics. I can't even think of anyone who came close. Even skaters 2 or 3 levels below her.
Mao seems a bit more consistent. I know she bombed a few times, but I honestly don't remember them to be so bad I had to close my eyes.
 

christinaskater

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
I think they will be evenly matched.

I see Akiko scoring 132-133 if skated to full potential together with a clean SP.

I see Ashley scoring 133-134 if skated to perfection!
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Caro had the worst meltdown of any skater in recent memory at the 2009 W. She repeated that at the 2010 Olympics. I can't even think of anyone who came close. Even skaters 2 or 3 levels below her.
Mao seems a bit more consistent. I know she bombed a few times, but I honestly don't remember them to be so bad I had to close my eyes.

Well, Alissa Czisny comes to mind in recent memory :slink:
 

mikeko666

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
I think Akiko is doing as well as she hope to be. She's more of a show girl than a star. Steady skater with good programs, and put her heart and soul into it, but she doesn't have the "IT" factor that can translate to points that the top girls have. Her "IT" factor is her P/E, but it isn't worth much.

I would give her close to 10 for some of her past performances, but that would only lift her to one or two points higher.

Someone like Mao Asada who can hit a 3A or 3F-3Lo, and suddenly her score potential go up by like 8 points.

She was the rightful winner of the NHK 2012, no doubt about that.

Well, the general public thinks that ladies figure skating is just another form of beauty pageant, anyway. Your speed and deep edges and musicality don't mean much if you aren't pretty enough. Do average Americans care about how Wagner won Nationals?

I don't think Asada's 3F+3Lo will be ratified, but that's where lobbying matters. Anything can happen if Asada could win the NHK with four popped triples.
 
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verysmuchso

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
I don't think no one in the current crop of lady skaters is quite pageant-worthy, except for a few outliers like Korpi. Yuna is also attractive but she is not quite the Venus de Milo either. The playing field is really quite even in terms of beauty. So, Akiko, for me, is plenty competitive in this sense. If Akiko keeps delivering electrifying performances as she is doing now, maybe the balance will tip in her favor.
 

christinaskater

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
I don't think no one in the current crop of lady skaters is quite pageant-worthy, except for a few outliers like Korpi. Yuna is also attractive but she is not quite the Venus de Milo either. The playing field is really quite even in terms of beauty. So, Akiko, for me, is plenty competitive in this sense. If Akiko keeps delivering electrifying performances as she is doing now, maybe the balance will tip in her favor.

She is very beautiful in my eyes.

Akiko has shown especially in 4CC that she has the command of a champion and a determination to win.

She is not just a showgirl on ice. She is an artist baring her soul and her life in those skates. She is one of my favourite skaters of all-time. Her musicality is simply beyond words.
 

wonderlen3000

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
If caro does 3T3T, 3lo, 2A in the SP, and 6 clean triples in the LP, yes, Yuna would have to be pristine clean to beat her. If yuna makes one mistake (pop/fall) she won't place above Caro.
Easily? Are you out of your mind?

If Caro can her hit 3T+3T and 3Lo, 2A in SP. Her content is still 2 points less than Kim, and given higher +GOE average base on harder element, Kim will still out score in GOE too. Their PCS will be within one point.

For LP, when was the last time Caro hit a clean 6 triples program, let alone 7?? Its been years. She is still likely to popped and stepout and messy landing as much as other skaters.
 

verysmuchso

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
She is very beautiful in my eyes.

Akiko has shown especially in 4CC that she has the command of a champion and a determination to win.

She is not just a showgirl on ice. She is an artist baring her soul and her life in those skates. She is one of my favourite skaters of all-time. Her musicality is simply beyond words.
:yes: She has great eye contact as well.
 

jamie

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
The way Akiko skated at 4CC surpassed anything Ashley has put out so far, I feel. The jumps were on par and Akiko's spin had improved at 4CC, though I'd still say Ashley's spin is better than Akiko's. Akiko has always surpassed Ashley in terms of the speed and edges, and she was particularly good at 4CC.

Suzuki's score at 4CC included a waxel as opposed to her 2axel/3toe. This would have given her circa 132 points and that WITH the muted PCS scores.

Ergo, if Suzuki EVER went completely clean, she'd score 130+ which is more than Wagner could ever achieve IMO.

Problem is, I'm not sure Suzuki will ever have the mental strength to have two programs that are completely clean.
 
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