Time for New US World Selection System? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Time for New US World Selection System?

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I sort of thought WTT assignments were random because they sent Gold last year and she had very few WS points having only competed in one JGP and JW. But maybe they just pulled strings for Gracie. I don't doubt if one of the boys win JWC he might have a good shot, or if Rippon is healed the Fed might try to send him out so he gets another chance at a SB (he's already out of the top 24 as is - Joshua is 22 atm) to help him get GP assignments. And you are probably right, you just wonder how the field being more open now will affect the mindset/nerves/expectations of competitors with chances to medal (could be positive or negative IMO).
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I can't help but wonder, if the US falls flat at worlds and Olympics next year whether we'll FINALLY see a change in the World Team selection system...

There is no perfect method, but you can just look over at USA Gymnastics (with its own share of apparently controversial decisions)...but whatever they're doing- it's working!
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
There is no perfect method, but you can just look over at USA Gymnastics (with its own share of apparently controversial decisions)...but whatever they're doing- it's working!

I think it is because we have had some good gymnasts lately, not because the selection system is so fine.
 

willdu

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I can't help but wonder, if the US falls flat at worlds and Olympics next year whether we'll FINALLY see a change in the World Team selection system...

There is no perfect method, but you can just look over at USA Gymnastics (with its own share of apparently controversial decisions)...but whatever they're doing- it's working!

Some world class gymnasts paired with training hours, a centralized camp system, and the nature of the sport (much more consistent) is what makes USAG great. You can see USAG has it's down years ie 2010 worlds.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
The selection system is fine it's the skaters that are the problem. If we had consistent skaters who were not headcases and skated to their potential there would be no controversy about who gets sent to Worlds, 4CC etc. Lets face it when Racheal Flatt was the best US Ladies skater for a couple years the US was not good enough to have 3 spots and we still don't have two skaters good enough and consistent enough.
 
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karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I can't help but wonder how much of this is driven by "My favourite didn't win Nationals or even place second! NEW SELECTION SYSTEM NAO!"

I happen to think Miner and Aaron is the strongest team they could have sent out of that top group. Abbott? Never again on your life. Rippon? Ditto. Farris? Maybe, a bit young, and he wanted to go back to Junior Worlds. Dornbush? Nope. Brown? Not ready. Johnson? Too much risk the judges would go "who"?

So, they picked their 1 and 2, 1 being a rather explosive skater with a great sense of fun, huge jumps, great perspective and, as seen at 4CCs, the ability to hang in there, while 2 is your "steady eddie", a very consistent performer, technically solid, lovely to watch. I'm failing to understand the problem here.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
There is no way to pick good skaters when there aren't any. It's like picking a public toilet to eat off of: you can flip a coin or convene a committee, but you still ain't gonna like the taste. And outside of ice dancing, a toilet is pretty much where US figure skating is at in the current Olympic cycle. We don't have contenders. We have a stable of second rate skaters. And when they flop at Worlds, someone is going to say, in fantastical hindsight, that another second rate skater would've had a better day. Nuh uh. That second rate skater would've flopped just as hard, leading someone else to say the same thing about the original second rater.

The selection process isn't the problem. Having crap skaters is. It may just be bad luck, or it may be institutional/cultural problems in how competitive skaters/coaches are recruited and developed. And if it's the latter, then let's fix that. If we get a better crop of skaters, we won't have to make any lose/lose choices.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
^ Oh, that's too harsh! Can't they be picnic tables at a public park?

:laugh:

Although, I'd actually bet that public picnic tables have more germs than public toilets. Yech.

I guess, if we go by that bowdlerized analogy, Ashley Wagner would be like the aluminum legs of a folding table: if we could just find the top part from the garage, we could have ourselves a halfway decent meal. She's been the only dependable non-ice dancing American in this cycle that can make a dent at Worlds. But she can't do it alone if the goal is to win back that third spot. And she's only middle of the pack compared to the dependable top contenders from around the world. So don't expect her to come out on top, she's just the support.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Jason's plan was always to focus on 2018. Josh's original plan had him moving up to Seniors this season but they became concerned when he was only offered one GP and decided strategically to go round again on the JGP. (Ranking points or something.)


Slightly off-topic, but if we want to talk about "don't forget how young they are"......Artur Gachinski is still actually age eligible for Junior Worlds. ;)

He stated his plan was Sochi, but trouble with the 3A made him change his plans, if I recall. But I was debating more in general terms.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
:rofl: yeah, great analogy...Wagner's no cream of the crop...she's no Porsche or Bentley, she's...more like an Acura, decent, dependable enough but not world-leading. (Flatt was a Toyota- very dependable but no shot at the top whatsoever.)
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I can't help but wonder how much of this is driven by "My favourite didn't win Nationals or even place second! NEW SELECTION SYSTEM NAO!"

I happen to think Miner and Aaron is the strongest team they could have sent out of that top group. Abbott? Never again on your life. Rippon? Ditto. Farris? Maybe, a bit young, and he wanted to go back to Junior Worlds. Dornbush? Nope. Brown? Not ready. Johnson? Too much risk the judges would go "who"?

So, they picked their 1 and 2, 1 being a rather explosive skater with a great sense of fun, huge jumps, great perspective and, as seen at 4CCs, the ability to hang in there, while 2 is your "steady eddie", a very consistent performer, technically solid, lovely to watch. I'm failing to understand the problem here.

The problem is the USFS does not have, at the moment, a male skater who is consistent, has good mastery of at least one type of quad, AND is very strong artistically, and with the international scene being the way it is, they need someone like that to make getting 3 spots likely. Currently we have a handful of guys with one or two of these traits but not all three. There's potential for someone to show up with all 3 in the future, most likely in the form of Farris, Omori, Chen or Zhou, but no one totally fitting that description just yet. Evan was this person up through the past quad, but even in his 2010 form I don't think he can fill this void either just because the quad is KEY now and it wasn't when Evan was competing. Maybe post Sochi with all the retirements we'll likely see the men's field will return to the way it was circa 2010 and it won't be quad or bust, but for now, it is, and there just happen to be a number of guys internationally who can do the quad AND are good skaters/performers/artists, and some of them are even pretty consistent, or so good that they don't need to be consistent to win things. So until we have a male skater in the US who fits all three of those categories, getting 3 spots at Worlds is a crap shoot regardless of who we send and that's really what it comes down to. So all we can do is hope the guys that are going to Worlds skate their best and hope the placements work out.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
:rofl: yeah, great analogy...Wagner's no cream of the crop...she's no Porsche or Bentley, she's...more like an Acura, decent, dependable enough but not world-leading. (Flatt was a Toyota- very dependable but no shot at the top whatsoever.)

To be fair, I drive an Acura and like it just fine. ;)
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
To be fair, I drive an Acura and like it just fine. ;)

Oh no, no. Don't get me wrong. Acuras are great cars. Actually, that was the very point I was trying to make about Wagner - she is good in her own right, but she will be going up against some serious posh/luxury cars at Worlds...
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
In terms of the US men, there are a lot of guys with great basics, decent jumps, and nice spins, but nobody who makes you sit up and notice him.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Agreed. Even if the way to get people to sit up and notice them is to go the Joubert route and just be hunky and charismatic in porny body suits. Whatever works. We have a few handsome ones coming up through the ranks...like maybe if Phillip Warren can get a quad...:agree:

In all seriousness though we are likely just at a transition period. Hopefully we'll have a new star, or multiple!, in a few years time. There's certainly no shortage of talent in the country!
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The problem is the USFS does not have, at the moment, a male skater who is consistent, has good mastery of at least one type of quad, AND is very strong artistically, and with the international scene being the way it is, they need someone like that to make getting 3 spots likely.

Have we ever? :laugh:
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Well, not the quad part, but we USED to have consistent men with at least the same technical content as the rest of the World (Hamilton, Boitano, Wylie...)
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Have we ever? :laugh:

Lysacek when the quad was not essential to winning had the other two down. I know a lot of people did not LIKE his artistry, but the international judges appreciated it and marked him as a good artistic skater. Plus he had THE DRIVE. We need someone like that. Evan was very talented but what he lacked in raw ability he made up for in competitive firepower and determination, which almost makes me respect him more as a skater. And he did really skate like he wanted to people to notice him, I know arm flailing isn't everyone's cup of tea but it was effective in gaining attention. Gosh now I miss Evan. Not that I think he'd really be competitive at the top now considering his age and the importance of the quad but, idk, dude is pretty inspirational.
 
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