Olympic team event

clairecloutier · Feb 20, 2013

Does anyone have a link to the complete rules for the Olympic team event? I did some searching but haven't been able to find it.

I have one question particularly. I read that teams are comprised of 1 man, 1 woman, 1 pair, 1 dance team for each country. My question is: Does that mean the same lady or dance team, for example, has to skate both the SP and LP? Or can a team field, say, 1 man or pair in the short program but another man or pair in the long program? For example, Abbott in the SP, Miner in the LP?

Skater Boy · Feb 20, 2013

Each team is allowed two subs whether it be a singles or pairs/dance team. So you could have up to six competitors (singles/teams). Ie. Japan to conserve energy could have Hanyu skate the SP and DAi the long, likewise Suzuki coujld do the short and Mao the long and then the Reeds and whoever skate both dance and pairs routines.

clairecloutier · Feb 20, 2013

Skater Boy said:
Each team is allowed two subs whether it be a singles or pairs/dance team. So you could have up to six competitors (singles/teams). Ie. Japan to conserve energy could have Hanyu skate the SP and DAi the long, likewise Suzuki coujld do the short and Mao the long and then the Reeds and whoever skate both dance and pairs routines.

I see. Wow, it's going to be interesting, just seeing who makes the teams . . .

ice coverage · Feb 20, 2013

ISU rules for Sochi figure skating team event - Feb 2013 link

eyria, the ISU just published an updated version of "Qualification System for Figure Skating and the Rules for the Figure Skating Team Event."

Link: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4263

The team event is discussed in Annex A, which begins on page 5 of the 12-page document.

The document is dated Feb 5, 2013, and it was posted on the ISU website on Feb 18.

http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/...3,4844-205151-222374-nav-list,00.html?id=1264

clairecloutier · Feb 20, 2013

golden411 said:
eyria, the ISU just published an updated version of "Qualification System for Figure Skating and the Rules for the Figure Skating Team Event."

Link: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4263

The team event is discussed in Annex A, which begins on page 5 of the 12-page document.

Thanks!

TontoK · Feb 20, 2013

Well, I'll just jump in with speculation without bothering to read the source documents another poster has so kindly provided... :laugh:

I'd have to say that Canada would be an early favorite in this category. They have legitimately strong medal contenders in three of the four disciplines, and an up-and-coming ladies singles as their "weak" link. That's not a bad line-up.

Japan would be my bet for silver.

Bronze would be a toss-up, maybe USA sneaking in on the strength of D/W.

I think the whole team concept could be a lot of fun for the competitors and spectators. We don't have many team events besides the ones I think of as "pretend" team events for early season TV. With an Olympic medal on the line, I suspect this will be taken much more seriously.

Mathman · Feb 20, 2013

I would say Russia for silver ahead of Japan. Japan doesn't have a competitive pairs team or dance team. Russia has Volosozhar & Trankov in pairs and either Bobrova & Soloviev or Ilinykh & Kalsalsapov :love:

, plus ladies Liza T. and Adelina S. Only their men's situation is unclear, with Plushenko's return uncertain.

ImaginaryPogue · Feb 20, 2013

Canada vs Russia for the gold

France vs USA for the bronze

It's definitely a fascinating competition in terms of the competitors and how they are arranged.

Skater Boy · Feb 21, 2013

Japan and Italy are in the mix as well. France and Italy could do really well or have disastrous results. Why? Look at France - they showed promise in pairs and have two strong men but both men could end out of the top ten too if Two Americans, Two Canadians, Three japanese, Javier, A chinese man and maybe Denis ten and a Russian or two place in the top ten. Then add to the fact their woman is potentially a top ten or not even qualify. They look strong in dance but P and B look vulnerable with the Russians,and Second Americans and Canadians as well as italians about to all pass - heck add two Russian teams. Their woamn section looks weak. Italy has Kotner who could win it all or diasastrous. Ditto for the coaching

vera01 · Feb 21, 2013

Mathman said:
I would say Russia for silver ahead of Japan. Japan doesn't have a competitive pairs team or dance team. Russia has Volosozhar & Trankov in pairs and either Bobrova & Soloviev or Ilinykh & Kalsalsapov , plus ladies Liza T. and Adelina S. Only their men's situation is unclear, with Plushenko's return uncertain.

I don't know if Russia would make V/T to compete in both team event and in pairs. Pairs SP is held only few days after team event ends.

koatcue · Feb 21, 2013

1 - Canada
2 - Russia
3 - Japan

ImaginaryPogue · Feb 21, 2013

Skater Boy said:
Japan and Italy are in the mix as well. France and Italy could do really well or have disastrous results. Why? Look at France - they showed promise in pairs and have two strong men but both men could end out of the top ten too if Two Americans, Two Canadians, Three japanese, Javier, A chinese man and maybe Denis ten and a Russian or two place in the top ten. Then add to the fact their woman is potentially a top ten or not even qualify. They look strong in dance but P and B look vulnerable with the Russians,and Second Americans and Canadians as well as italians about to all pass - heck add two Russian teams. Their woamn section looks weak. Italy has Kotner who could win it all or diasastrous. Ditto for the coaching

But that's not how the team event works - firstly, you have to qualify for the event (which rules out Kazakhstan, having no ladies, pairs or dance teams really). Next, only one entrant per country per discipline. SO who cares that three Japanese could be Joubert/Amodio. Only one will be competing in the team event. And finally, the teams that have the deepest field in all disciplines will be at an advantage due to the points scoring. The problem for France is aggregate scoring over the two phases, which is why I'd probably predict the USA.

clairecloutier · Feb 21, 2013

Having read the communication, I'm not sure what I think about the scoring of the team event.

Instead of being based on total score earned, it's based on total placements. I haven't done the full math but this seems like it might benefit a team such as Japan. Let's say for example that the final 5 teams are Russia, Canada, USA, France, Japan. In this case, the Japanese ice dance team (the Reeds) are not in the same class as the dance teams from the other countries. Their numerical score would probably come in, I don't know, maybe 20 points behind the potential 4th-place Russian dance team? However, instead of being actually 20 points behind, they'd only be 1 point behind, because the scoring is based on placement (5th) rather than scores earned.

I think I would have preferred a score-based system. Would be interested to hear others' opinions though.

ImaginaryPogue · Feb 21, 2013

The scoring based system would underprivilege dance to pairs/ladies and pairs/ladies to men. D/W won Worlds 2011 with 185.27. Patrick Chan's long program score was 187.96. So two nations, one strong in men (say Japan) and one equally strong in dance (say USA) right now would be equal. Using scoring, that would change.

Secondly, if the Reeds are beaten by teams that DON'T make the long program, aggregate scoring means that they're behind anyway. The short program becomes hugely important.

Skater Boy · Feb 21, 2013

Sorry, right but the point is the Italians and French have particularly vulnerable skaters. which Kostner will show up. Amodio and Joubert have both been rather precarious and no longer look like second tier skaters.

Skater Boy · Feb 21, 2013

eyria said:
Having read the communication, I'm not sure what I think about the scoring of the team event.

Instead of being based on total score earned, it's based on total placements. I haven't done the full math but this seems like it might benefit a team such as Japan. Let's say for example that the final 5 teams are Russia, Canada, USA, France, Japan. In this case, the Japanese ice dance team (the Reeds) are not in the same class as the dance teams from the other countries. Their numerical score would probably come in, I don't know, maybe 20 points behind the potential 4th-place Russian dance team? However, instead of being actually 20 points behind, they'd only be 1 point behind, because the scoring is based on placement (5th) rather than scores earned.

I think I would have preferred a score-based system. Would be interested to hear others' opinions though.

Yep, that's right. It is sort of like the ordinal system so it does favour Japan for example or even Italy or France who are almost non existent in some disciplines or are not very competitive. In dance and pairs for example Japan could be dead last but still have a chance for a medal if they say place first in ladies and men which is realistic. By the luck of the draw Canada could say place 4th in men, 2nd in dance, 3rd in pairs, and say4th in ladies yet be so close ie dance, men and ladies to say someone higher up and so far ahead of say the Reeds or the new Japanese pairs team yet the scores or results won't show the distance of how close they were to someone above and far ahead of those below.

chuckm · Feb 21, 2013

If it's scored like the WTT, then the top placer would get 5 points and the bottom placer 1 point. I don't see how this benefits Japan, who would at best score 12 total points (5 in men, 5 in ladies, 1 in pairs, 1 in dance) and even the firsts in singles aren't guaranteed. If Canada scored 2nd in two events and 3rd in two events, they'd have 14 points.

I think the idea is where the TEAM places, not the points scored.

Olympic team event

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