Would Dick Button's "firsts" have been ratified today? | Golden Skate

Would Dick Button's "firsts" have been ratified today?

FSGMT

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Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I think that the 2A was <, when the loop was clean. But... they had such a terrible arms position in those years! All their limbs were bent in strange positions when they jumped...
 

plushyfan

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Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Congrats to him!!! But somehow it is strange to see, not a pretty sight...I agree with FSGMT.
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
I think Mr. Button would comment the set up or telegraphing was too much. It was like wind up and jump and yes bad position - negative GOE's lol.
 

gkelly

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Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I love it! Under rotated for sure.... The question is, if Mr. B of back then took his tests today, what level would they give him? Could he make novice?

I'm sure Button would have had no problem passing the current senior tests.

The jump content required on the US tests is not very onerous compared to what is required in competition, let alone what is required to win. Nor do the tests require higher level spins or step sequences.

And the Moves in the Field tests should not be too difficult for someone who had passed all the figure tests. Although he would need to learn how to twizzle. ;)
 

Icey

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Nov 28, 2012
I don't know, but I read recently that Henie's jump technique would not be considered good by today's standards. But these skaters were pioneers and what they did would, of course, as time went by be improved on.
 

FSGMT

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Joined
Sep 10, 2012
In the first video that Mathman posted, they show (after the 2A, at 00:25) his FO camel spin (the first man ever to do it), and it was as good as the ones that most of the men do today (and better than most of the low-level men!)! :yes:
 

gkelly

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Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't know, but I read recently that Henie's jump technique would not be considered good by today's standards.

I didn't say that Sonja Henie could pass today's tests. She didn't have the double jumps. There was a big shift in jump content from before to after WWII. Barbara Ann Scott could have passed today's US tests.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Here's Donald Jackson in 1962. He was one of the first skaters to do several different triple jumps. (Notice that he skates to Carmen!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alrsemq_mzQ

When Jackson came back to skate for awhile in the eighties, Button said something about how skaters from those days held their landing positions longer than more modern skaters.

One thing that gets me about Sonia Henie when I watch her is her upper body carriage. She bends and almost hunches her shoulders. The open shoulders and erect back of today, so beautifully exemplified by Dorothy Hamill and Yuka Sato, didn't seem to exist at the time.

I wonder whether the introduction of dance training for skaters might have helped the change. It's interesting to think of Laurence Owen, who was coached by her mother, Maribel Vinson Owen, a contemporary of Henie. Laurence clearly had dance training, but Don Jackson, her contemporary, didn't. I guess in the West the feeling was, why would a guy do dance training....That might have come in with the Soviets, and then of course John Curry.

Here's Owen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0114AudgYms

Of course, if any of those skaters were young and training today, they'd train with modern methods and would land their jumps just as rotated as anyone. Sonia Henie, for example, was unusually athletic for her day. Today, she would not be attempting single jumps to pass the tests.
 
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Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
I didn't say that Sonja Henie could pass today's tests. She didn't have the double jumps. There was a big shift in jump content from before to after WWII. Barbara Ann Scott could have passed today's US tests.

?????I don't think I said you said Sonja could pass today's test, by implication or otherwise.

I should have specified that it was Henie's axel technique that was not good. They were badly pre rotated. Still it goes without saying she was a marvel. Nice to see a sit spin done properly as shown in the vid that was posted.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Nice to see a sit spin done properly as shown in the vid that was posted.

I was so surprised to see that as well. I can't remember the last time I've seen a sit spin like that under CoP. Most skaters will force their spine to their thighs in their "sit spins." Does a sit spin where your spine is upright not garner as many points as a pancake spin?
 

Sasha'sSpins

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Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
Skaters like Button, Henie and Owen weren't just talented they were gifted. A cut above. And fierce competitors! I'm sure if they had been brought up with modern equipment (meaning skates) and with today's training standards all 3 would be right up there battling it out with the Chans, Kims, and Asadas respectively. :D
 
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