Which Ladies Can Skate a 130+ LP at Worlds?

SXTN · Feb 23, 2013

rkuang said:
I'm not sure why you're confused about fans. You've been on this forum for a while, so I don't see how it's a surprise that people have favorites. Kim, Mao, Kostner, Akiko all have some dedicated fans here, from what I can see. And yes, having a skater you dislike counts because it generally means they have another favorite. I'm still shocked that some people act so indignant and nonplussed when these top-tier skaters get complimented. They all have the hardware to prove it, including Kim. Problems only arise when someone else defends their favorite by denigrating another skater.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, we know all these skaters are capable of reaching 130+ if they skate their best on that day, and I look forward to seeing the showdown.

FlattFan · Feb 23, 2013

Of course fans have favorites and there is no surprise there.
What is surprising is the number of illogical posts from certain skater's fans.

You don't see akiko's fans go and say Carolina kostner doesn't have outside edge take off on her lutz, do you? That's the point!

npavel · Feb 23, 2013

rkuang said:
I'm not sure why you're confused about fans. You've been on this forum for a while, so I don't see how it's a surprise that people have favorites. Kim, Mao, Kostner, Akiko all have some dedicated fans here, from what I can see. And yes, having a skater you dislike counts because it generally means they have another favorite. I'm still shocked that some people act so indignant and nonplussed when these top-tier skaters get complimented. They all have the hardware to prove it, including Kim. Problems only arise when someone else defends their favorite by denigrating another skater.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, we know all these skaters are capable of reaching 130+ if they skate their best on that day, and I look forward to seeing the showdown.

Itcaip said:

This!
Can't we just enjoy that we have got so god skaters who can challenge each others and hope all of them have a great day? Mao, Kostner, Tuktamysheva has shown they are capable of reaching 130+ , YuNa surelly can that too, some others can maybe surprise, but has to do it yet. It will be great to see these big skaters when they came all toghether

prettykeys · Feb 23, 2013

FlattFan said:
Telegraph a jump doesn't take anything away from the jump. You just won't get ONE bullet on the GOE list. How does that make the jump less good? Do you understand the system?

So now Caro has questionable lutz, too?
Here's a different angle at her lutz at Euro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YkaauH9afAg#t=46s

So odd, these Yuna fans. Seriously, where do they come from?

I have no idea how you've concluded hurrah is specifically a "YuNa fan" when he/she is a known Mao uber with an avatar of Mao in their profile... and has claimed that YuNa has a 3Flip that is "kanakoesque."

I know it's fashionable to blame a whole host of things on "YuNa fans", but come on now.

cooper · Feb 23, 2013

FlattFan said:
Kim is equally unlikely to skate clean. And her program is terrible.
Yuna's lutz-toe is good. Other jumps don't get good GOE for a reason. +4 GOE for what?

What's luck got to do with hitting 3x3?
Where do these Yuna fans come from? No logic or reason at all.

since when jenaj is a yuna uber? thank you for generalizing every post. *rolleyes*

jenaj · Feb 23, 2013

cooper said:
since when jenaj is a yuna uber? thank you for generalizing every post. *rolleyes*

Thank you. I am far from a Yu Na uber. (I am a Kwan uber, however).

Mathman · Feb 23, 2013

prettykeys said:
I have no idea how you've concluded hurrah is specifically a "YuNa fan" when he/she is a known Mao uber with an avatar of Mao in their profile... and has claimed that YuNa has a 3Flip that is "kanakoesque."

See? That's just how those Yu-na ubers are. They put up Mao avatars to try and trick us.

Krislite · Feb 23, 2013

prettykeys said:
I have no idea how you've concluded hurrah is specifically a "YuNa fan" when he/she is a known Mao uber with an avatar of Mao in their profile... and has claimed that YuNa has a 3Flip that is "kanakoesque."

I know it's fashionable to blame a whole host of things on "YuNa fans", but come on now.

FlattFan hasn't clued you in on the GS rules: Anyone critical of some skater other than Yuna MUST BE a Yuna fan. It's a GS rule #1.

Rule #2, posters who praise Yuna's skating and qualify them with "I am not a Yuna-fan" are also secretly Yuna ubers deceiving forum members. Rule #3, even if you see flaws in Yuna's skating, if you criticize any of Yuna's competitors (Mao, Carolina,Miki, etc.) in some way you are clearly a closet Yuna fan.

Bartek · Feb 23, 2013

FlattFan said:
Telegraph a jump doesn't take anything away from the jump. You just won't get ONE bullet on the GOE list. How does that make the jump less good? Do you understand the system?

So now Caro has questionable lutz, too?
Here's a different angle at her lutz at Euro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YkaauH9afAg#t=46s

So odd, these Yuna fans. Seriously, where do they come from?

You are the one who do not understand the system. Firstly, read ISU lists for giving +GOE and then read about the aspects of jumps that cause deductions. I'll give you a hint. Telegraphing has been one of the things that should be given -GOE ever since they started to use CoP. Secondly, watch Caro's and Yu-Na's flip again and go through the lists for bullets and deductions AGAIN. Then you'll see, presumebly, that Yu-Na has even better flip than Caro. She has huge speed going in and on the landing, spectacular height and does not telegraph it like Caro. Thus, Yu-Na's flip is better.

FlattFan · Feb 23, 2013

Bartek said:
You are the one who do not understand the system. Firstly, read ISU lists for giving +GOE and then read about the aspects of jumps that cause deductions. I'll give you a hint. Telegraphing has been one of the things that should be given -GOE ever since they started to use CoP. Secondly, watch Caro's and Yu-Na's flip again and go through the lists for bullets and deductions AGAIN. Then you'll see, presumebly, that Yu-Na has even better flip than Caro. She has huge speed going in and on the landing, spectacular height and does not telegraph it like Caro. Thus, Yu-Na's flip is better.

Who's executed a clean telegraphed lutz with a negative GOE? It doesn't happen despite what they said.
Most girls don't have any clear preceding steps prior to the lutz anyway, that's why it's never been deducted.
Clearly, you do not understand how the judges hand out GOE.

FlattFan · Feb 23, 2013

cooper said:
since when jenaj is a yuna uber? thank you for generalizing every post. *rolleyes*

Ok, that's even worse. Diagnosed problem is always better than unknown disease.

mateusp1 · Feb 23, 2013

With all due respect to Yuna Kim and her fans...

I don't think these flips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DGPvC1waCic#t=85s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O59GUx8iJMI#t=39s

Are better than these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qSU803nRYh4#t=65s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ONViuMXi2nE#t=64s

But, it is just my humble point of view. Don't get me wrong, Yuna's flip is great. It easily deserves +2 GOE. But, for me, Carolina's flip has an extra "WOW factor". I friend of mine always comments with me that, for her, Caro's flip is like men's flip(in terms of power). Also, Yuna's flip is much more consistent than Caro's flip. The rate of nailing the Flip is much higher with Yuna than with Caro.

I AM SO SORRY FOR MY POOR ENGLISH.

Mathman · Feb 23, 2013

^ Your written English is excellent.

Ambivalent · Feb 23, 2013

FlattFan said:
Who's executed a clean telegraphed lutz with a negative GOE? It doesn't happen despite what they said.
Most girls don't have any clear preceding steps prior to the lutz anyway, that's why it's never been deducted.
Clearly, you do not understand how the judges hand out GOE.

Mate, you've been talking up Carolina's chances and not really appreciating the ability of Mao and Yuna to produce the goods as well. Mao and Yuna are much more accomplished than Carolina and have brought great programs more often than the latter. And then you complain when people suggest that Mao and Yuna are much more likely to do well at the upcoming worlds than Carolina, given their competitive history?

Seems like you're only in the business of down-playing Kim's chances of doing well at Worlds. To be sure I have my doubts as well (especially as Kim hasn't had much competition time as yet), but mate it's time to harden up and face the reality. Everyone knows that Carolina can skate great, but it'll be her going up against previous world champions and Olympic medallists, not the other way around.

jenaj · Feb 23, 2013

mateusp1 said:
With all due respect to Yuna Kim and her fans...

I don't think these flips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DGPvC1waCic#t=85s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O59GUx8iJMI#t=39s

Are better than these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qSU803nRYh4#t=65s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ONViuMXi2nE#t=64s

But, it is just my humble point of view. Don't get me wrong, Yuna's flip is great. It easily deserves +2 GOE. But, for me, Carolina's flip has an extra "WOW factor". I friend of mine always comments with me that, for her, Caro's flip is like men's flip(in terms of power). Also, Yuna's flip is much more consistent than Caro's flip. The rate of nailing the Flip is much higher with Yuna than with Caro.

I AM SO SORRY FOR MY POOR ENGLISH.

Both are very good, but I love the tightness of Yu Na's flip.

P.S. Your English is fine.

Krislite · Feb 23, 2013

FlattFan said:
Kim is equally unlikely to skate clean. And her program is terrible.
Yuna's lutz-toe is good. Other jumps don't get good GOE for a reason. +4 GOE for what?

I think there's more evidence the other way. Given Carolina's competitive history and Yuna's, it is more likely for Yuna to skate a clean LP at Worlds than Carolina. Yuna has a far better track record at not having a meltdown at Worlds or Olympics. And unlike Carolina she has actually skated clean at high-pressure events like the Olympics. Even at last year's worlds when Carolina had no competition for the title she still doubled a jump in the LP, a rather easy program for her in which she omitted the Lutz and had no triple-triple.

FlattFan · Feb 24, 2013

Ambivalent said:
Mate, you've been talking up Carolina's chances and not really appreciating the ability of Mao and Yuna to produce the goods as well. Mao and Yuna are much more accomplished than Carolina and have brought great programs more often than the latter. And then you complain when people suggest that Mao and Yuna are much more likely to do well at the upcoming worlds than Carolina, given their competitive history?

If you trace back any of my posts, I've never downplayed any of Mao or Yuna's chances. I said a 6 triples Yuna would place over a 6 triples Carolina.
Are you serious? Of course Mao and Yuna are more accomplished than Caro. When did I complain about people suggesting Mao and Yuna do better because they do better?

Bartek · Feb 24, 2013

FlattFan said:
Who's executed a clean telegraphed lutz with a negative GOE? It doesn't happen despite what they said.
Most girls don't have any clear preceding steps prior to the lutz anyway, that's why it's never been deducted.
Clearly, you do not understand how the judges hand out GOE.

Ok, I'll try in a different way. Compare Yu-Na's and Caro's GOE for their triple flips over the years and you'll see the outcome (hopefully).

The fact that somebody doesn't have preceeding steps before the lutz or a difficult entrance of any kind does not mean that the jump is telegraphed. Yu-Na does not have a difficult entry before her flip and lutz and yet she does not telegraph them. Caro does not have difficult entry either but she does telegraph therefore her jumps are worse than Yu-Na's. As simple as that, get over it.

mateusp1 · Feb 24, 2013

Bartek said:
Ok, I'll try in a different way. Compare Yu-Na's and Caro's GOE for their triple flips over the years and you'll see the outcome (hopefully).

The fact that somebody doesn't have preceeding steps before the lutz or a difficult entrance of any kind does not mean that the jump is telegraphed. Yu-Na does not have a difficult entry before her flip and lutz and yet she does not telegraph them. Caro does not have difficult entry either but she does telegraph therefore her jumps are worse than Yu-Na's. As simple as that, get over it.

When Carolina lands her jumps on a pristine clean way, she can get more GOE than Yuna.

I am gonna give an example...

2011 worlds LP...

(Just a P.S. before the comparasion... At 2011 Worlds, Yuna did not land a solo Flip, but landed a solo Lutz in her FS. Carolina did not land a solo Lutz, but landed a solo 3F. The elements that I am going to compare both of them landed them perfectly).

Also, I am gonna use the solo Lutz for Yuna and the solo Flip for Caro. And a I still say that Yuna's Lutz is much better than her Flip. The quality of her Lutz is above all of her other jumps. For me, Yuna has the best Lutz of all ladies.

So, let's begin.

1- Solo Axel

Yuna:

2A 3.63 x 0.64 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 2

Caro:

2A 3.30 1.00 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 2

2- Solo Salchow

Yuna:

3S 4.62 x 0.80 2 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 1

Caro:

3S 4.62 x 1.20 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 2 1

3- Solo Flip/Lutz

Yuna:

3Lz 6.60 x 0.90 1 1 1 0 1 1 2 2 2

Caro:

3F 5.30 1.30 3 2 2 2 1 2 1 2 2

As you can see, when they both hit their jumps, Carolina can get a little more GOE.

Credits:

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

FlattFan · Feb 24, 2013

Bartek said:
Ok, I'll try in a different way. Compare Yu-Na's and Caro's GOE for their triple flips over the years and you'll see the outcome (hopefully).

Are you serious? Hopefully you realize Yuna lipped a while back while Caro never had any problem with her flips. Over the years, Caro's flip is better for that reason.

The fact that somebody doesn't have preceeding steps before the lutz or a difficult entrance of any kind does not mean that the jump is telegraphed. Yu-Na does not have a difficult entry before her flip and lutz and yet she does not telegraph them. Caro does not have difficult entry either but she does telegraph therefore her jumps are worse than Yu-Na's. As simple as that, get over it.

Caro's jumps usually get huge GOE because of the speed in and out of the jumps (when she's clean)
She's more inconsistent compare to Kim, but when she's on, she got higher GOE. Look it over and get over it. She might not have difficult entry and telegraph some of her jumps, but she has interesting exit, good height, good air position, good distance, etc...

Edit to add,
Caro's 3F at 2012 World.
Base: 5.3 GOE 1.5 2 3 2 2 1 3 2 2 2

The fact that she consistently get +2 GOE is factual enough. So again, get over it.

Which Ladies Can Skate a 130+ LP at Worlds?

SXTN

FlattFan

Match Penalty

npavel

prettykeys

cooper

jenaj

Mathman

Krislite

Bartek

FlattFan

Match Penalty

FlattFan

Match Penalty

mateusp1

Mathman

Ambivalent

jenaj

Krislite

FlattFan

Match Penalty

Bartek

mateusp1

FlattFan

Match Penalty

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