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Thread: Victims of techincal minimums fall through the cracks

  1. #31
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Canada: actually was going to, but chose not to at the last minute. Really should consider doing so.

    USA: Does. Unless you believe it should run two.
    If Germany can have three (I think) senior Bs (Nebelhorn, NRW, Bavarian Open), and Poland (Warsaw Cup, Nestle Cup) Slovakia (Ondrej Nepela, New Year's Cup) Austria (Ice Challenge Graz, Hellmut Siebt Memorial) and Italy (Merano Cup, Gardena Spring Trophy) two apiece, why can't the US have two? And while none of these countries has a GP, they often host JGPs as well as these events. Germany and Slovakia did this season, and Croatia hosted Euros and a JGP, and still managed two senior Bs (Golden Bear and Golden Spin).

    I still don't understand why Canada didn't go ahead with - what was it, Thornhill?

    Clear you inbox, BTW

  2. #32
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I would like to understand why Canada ruled against a Senior B as well.

    And yes, there should be at least one post Nationals senior B in North America. Right now, there is just one (Salt Lake), and it is at the start of the season.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    USA: Does. Unless you believe it should run two.
    It had a very limited amount of entries allowed and USFS has only entered 2 of its own skaters!!! I mean I did a double take when I saw that. Are they completely mad?

    This was an opportunity for their skaters to:
    - earn ISU minimum scores
    - earn ISU ranking points
    - get feedback from an international technical and judging panel
    - get themselves out there and get known by international judges
    - earn international competition experience

    And they only send 2 skaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Clearly, there are reasons; and I think someone listed them out last year for us; but they made so little sense to me that I can't remember them.
    The reasons are probably financial.

    If you organise an ISU-sanctioned international event, you have to have at least 5 judges from different countries plus 3 technical panelists (from diff countries as well I think?). And you have to pay all of their expenses. In USA and Canada's case it means paying for transatlantic flights. You also have to pay for competition and practice ice time.

    Still if Eastern European countries which are far far poorer than US/Canada/Japan and whose Figure Skating Federations have much more limited budgets are able to regularly organise big international events, I cannot understand why the biggest, richest federations aren't.

    Polish Figure Skating Federation's budget is tiny but they are still able to hold two large international events every year. Warsaw Cup is sponsored by the city of Warsaw, Mentor Nestle Nesquik Cup is sponsored by Mentor (an insurance company) and Nestle.

    I guess it is much cheaper to fly the judges in, if you can get them from neighbouring countries.

  4. #34
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Salt Lake City is not a location that is convenient to very many competitors. I thought it was a lousy choice for a Senior B, but you have to give the local club kudos for at least getting something done.

  5. #35
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Moon, Welcome to Golden Skate!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    It had a very limited amount of entries allowed and USFS has only entered 2 of its own skaters!!!
    Which is wierd, but they entered three dancers, four men and three pairs. They only sent two ladies.

    Ziggy, given how poorly Skate Canada actually uses senior Bs for it's skaters, it's not all that surprising it doesn't run it's own. Just disappointing.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    There must be potential for profit in these competitions. For example, in Europe the difference between what the the competitors are charged and what the hotel receives would go to the host nation.

    In North America the system is more transparent are there is less opportunity to make a profit.
    Please, there is nothing not transparent about it. When organising a competition, you have to sort out everything, including transportation to and from the hotel. It's the same as paying a travel company who arranges everything for you. And then there's also ice time and the costs of all the officials. An entry fee is not going to cover all of this and unless you find a sponsor, you will be running on a loss.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 02-25-2013 at 08:09 PM.

  8. #38
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    Yes, skaters pay their own accommodation costs. And again, I don't see anything wrong with taking a cut from them, if you undertake a huge job of organising an event. Obviously you are going to try to recover the costs.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 02-25-2013 at 08:50 PM.

  9. #39
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    Just noticed and read this thread with interest. While the point regarding the difficulty non-European skaters may have in attending Senior Bs is valid, it is only fair to point out that the Australian team trains in the US and attended at least 5 Senior Bs as well as Four Continents this season--meaning that the issue was clearly not access. Similarly situated teams such as Tobias/Stagnunias, Plutowska/Gerber, Heekin-Canedy/Dun, Reed/Reed, Reed/Rogov, and Agafonova/Ucar (until they moved to Moscow) have shared the same constraints and qualified for Worlds. I expect the Australians will continue to improve and that we will see them at Worlds next year--and possibly the Olympics.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    As to the Uzbeks, they will be at Junior Worlds, so they have one additional chance to make the TES score.
    Unfortunately they did not get the 29 TES that they needed today, missing by less than a point. JW is thus their final event for this season. I do hope they'll have better luck next season. Their high-drama race to make it to the qualifying round last year (complete with a worried Misha Ge live-tweeting from the rink) was quite memorable indeed and I'm sorry they won't get the chance to have a more normal Worlds experience this year.

  11. #41
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    Based upon my limited knowledge, I would not assume that any of the teams I mentioned have the authority to determine which or how many competitions they attend. Nor would I make any assumptions regarding which federations pay for what. I do know that some of those teams had already achieved the minimums last season. They were not chasing after technical panels this season.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    That is a very important point. Ice Dance development has been extremely successful but the ISU is not increasing opportunities and access for the teams.

    Only 20 make it to FD, only 8 at GP events. :(
    ^^^^this

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I would like to understand why Canada ruled against a Senior B as well.

    And yes, there should be at least one post Nationals senior B in North America. Right now, there is just one (Salt Lake), and it is at the start of the season.
    ^^^^and this. Is there any rumor of talk again regarding Canada hosting a Senior B in the upcoming season?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Please correct me if I am wrong about the mentioned teams but I would expect that their federations would allow them to go to as many competitions as they like as long as they paid their own way. Many of these teams just kept competing until they found a tech panel that gave them the minimum score. From what I know in Canada and US the federations do not allow their skaters to attend senior B unless they are chosen and the federation does pay for some of the costs. The skaters could not attend more even if they wanted to pay. I would think that if North American skaters were allowed to go to any competition they wanted to and pay for it we would see many more at European Senior b.
    Yes. It's a huge huge mistake on USFS' and SC's part not to allow their skaters to go to as many competitions as they would like, provided they pay their own costs.

    When NISA did a consultation exercise with the ISU involved on how they can improve their skating program, it was one of the things that has come up. Ever since then, loads of British skaters at all levels have been attending various international competitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lorna View Post
    Based upon my limited knowledge, I would not assume that any of the teams I mentioned have the authority to determine which or how many competitions they attend. Nor would I make any assumptions regarding which federations pay for what. I do know that some of those teams had already achieved the minimums last season. They were not chasing after technical panels this season.
    You don't need to make any assumptions because it's all transparent.

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