Goebel graduated from Columbia in Mathematics in 2010
http://www.teamusa.org/News/2012/Feb...ars-later.aspx
Tim Goebel had been so swamped with his work as an analytic consultant for Nielsen that he was not going to have a chance to leave his office base in Stamford, Conn., to soak in the national skating championships in San Jose, Calif.
Thank you Doris.Originally Posted by dorispulaski
Terrific interview. A revelation, actually. Shocking: Frank Carroll telling Tim he's "fired" on the way to the airport for a major competition. Incredibly selfish if Frank and deliberate. Transferring his loyalties to Evan and making it emphatic but also sabotaging Tim. Jenny has great follow-up questions - talking about that toxic environment that Tim had just cited. I prefer more from her. She seemed to be in the background initially.
Tim himself - very, very articulate, insightful and when you think about it, courageous. I also think Jenny fits these categories. and she's been in this role for a long time. A pioneer, if you will.
Very happy to hear/see how well Tim is doing in life. He's smart, quick and is very much contemporary in his knowledge of what's going on in the figure skating world both now and during his time in the spotlight. Huge strength of character.
This was a refreshing and illuminating interview and a lot of fun. Good for you Tim. Jen Kirk is very good at this. She has the look, image and smarts to work in the broadcast field.
What kind of coach (or man) tells his pupil immediately before a competition that he is "fired"? What a way to sabotage some one's performance at that event!!!
We have only heard one side of the story.
Yes. I just asked what kind of coach would do something like that. I hope Frank is not the kind who would engage in that kind of behavior. That being said, I doubt we will ever hear the other side of the story.
Well, Frank fired Chris Bowman on TV, pretty much, and their strained relationship was commented on by the TV crew as having been evident all week. Chris had, of course, given him plenty of reason to fire him, and for the relationship to be strained, but I get the impression that when Frank's had enough, he's had enough.
Tim acknowledged that it was time for him & Frank to part ways; it's just that Frank's timing was unprofessional, IMO. It's clear that Tim's health had deteriorated to the point that I'm sure he was not a joy for Frank to teach, nor was it a joy for Tim to deal with Frank either, I suspect.
I've listened to this interview twice and got more out of it the second time. I know we've only heard one side of the story - and I appreciate that - but I think the world of big-time coaching is fraught with stories like this. Frank clearly decided that Evan was the horse to back in the race and wanted to focus all his attention on him. The fact that he no doubt made a buttload of money off of Tim's medals didn't factor into it - it was the future and the Olympics. I think Frank is an excellent coach but I'm not so sure his ethics are always professional. AFterall, these coaches are also in this job for the money. I did find the whole situation with Michelle to be very, very interesting and I've always wondered what Danny Kwan's contribution to that breakup was. The fact that Michelle and Frank are still friends leads me to suspect it wasn't Michelle's decision. Frank had been dealing with Danny's "over-involvement" for years.......
Anyway, I'm glad Tim seems to be at peace with his skating career. I hope that some day someone will do a study on the effects of landing these quads on the development of young bodies. It certainly caused some problems with Kurt Browning and his back. The pressure on the spine and lower back of landing even a triple axel is extreme.
It's probably like jumping from a building several times a day. Human beings are not cats, to take that kind of strain. (Maybe except for Kurt.)
The whole question of Michelle and Frank is a mystery, but in a way I prefer that. Both of those people seem to like keeping such matters to themselves, out of the public eye, and these days that's not only refreshing but downright unheard of. No reality show, no tell-all book...astonishing.
I've only made it through four of the installments of the interview. Being the Michelle uber that I am, I was avid to hear Tim's description of her and how consistent she was even in practice.
The whole idea of the coach claiming future earnings is mind-boggling to me. I wonder how that worked out with champion skaters who kept switching from coach to coach. I'm thinking mostly of Sasha Cohen and Tonya Harding. Harding of course had no money to share with anyone (unless the coaches could claim a portion of her earnings from her boxing career), but Sasha has had a considerable pro career. How many people is she sharing her paydays with?
I was going to mention the same. Tim acknowledged that the 'firing' was appropriate; just not the timing. Tim clearly felt that he was being pushed aside for Evan, but considering that he was missing practices for weeks at a time, should Frank have sat around twiddling his thumbs? Tim's feelings might have also caused a barrier to go up between them. While I agree that the timing was poor, we also don't know why Frank chose that time - maybe he felt that the contention between the 2 of them was having a detrimental impact on his other coaching experiences??? Also, the signs were likely there, but Tim wasn't ready to make the break while Frank was - how many times do people in romantic relationships say 'I didn't see that break up coming' but can look back later and see the signs. Without hearing Frank's side, it's not fair to judge him as the only villian.
I found it interesting that no one seems to have had any inkling of Michelle's dropping Frank. No sign of tension, at all. It was nice to hear that Frank and Michelle are still friends, as Tim mentioned that Frank and Michelle got together for dinner,etc. after the split.
I doubt if the top or most talented skaters feel "indentured" to any coach. The skaters, after all, are the employers. I think there is probably a wide variation in how coaches are paid. Maybe Frank Carroll can command a share of a skater's earnings, but he is probably the exception, not the rule. (And I also think that Michelle probably had a better deal with him than Tim did. I would think most coaches would reduce their rates to coach a Michelle Kwan). The whole concept of a coach--who is really a paid employee--"firing" his student is kind of mind-boggling. Only in figure skating...Well, no. Skaters don’t really have a choice do they? Otherwise, Miki, for example, shouldn’t have any trouble finding a coach.
Or rather, it’s probably more accurate to say that skaters don’t have a choice that they should have. Either agree to the practice of indenturing themselves to famous coaches who possess the necessary technical and political skills set, or choose to foreclose your career, because without such a coach, you will develop ‘bad’ technique and/or injure yourself, and even if you miraculously acquire ‘textbook’ technique and stay healthy enough to compete, you don’t have the political backing to get the GOE and PCS that you might deserve, and so your chances of landing on the podium is likely to be less than what it would be with a famous coach.
It must be that there have been and are amazing natural figure skating talents in America who chose/choose not to embark on a path of seeking Olympic glory because they see what the deal is and they choose to stop figure skating and start spending that time educating themselves in other careers.
Chris Bowman was a different situation for a variety of reasons. Carroll had coached him since he was a kid, and Bowman was really going off the rails by the time Carroll walked away. Carroll has said (can't recall where) that he had a special relationship with Bowman, kind of father/son, and it was a very painful situation for him when he had to terminate himself as Bowman's coach. He said that he never wanted to get that emotionally caught up with a skater again. Chris probably was part of a good many relationships like that, both in skating and in life (remember that Toller coached him for a time); he was charming and clearly warm when healthy (let us use a charitable word) but inevitably wrecked things by his various varieties of bad behavior.
Exactly.
And if Frank was willing to behave like a petulant twit on TV (dramatically in public) with someone he had a father/son relationship with (Bowman) publicly making it clear Bowman was fired, I don't doubt that Frank fired Tim in private when Tim said he was fired. Tim has said this before and Frank never contradicted it.
I wouldn't mind hearing what Frank had to say about why he fired Tim, but since Tim agreed he needed to be fired, that would just add detail, not substance, to the discussion.
YMMV.
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