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Thread: 2013 Junior Worlds Ladies FS

  1. #421
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    Not sure if Courtney finished fourth here instead of Samantha, there will still be so much discussion about how unfair it is. Just thinking...After all, Samantha was behind the other two US ladies sent here; considering this, it is quite a victory for her. But if you talk about her like she can be a next Wagner (no 3-3 but good presentation)...

  2. #422
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    And what about Courtney, who always had good jumps?
    Did she restore after injury?
    Can she progress?

    She is more mature now, and her face is more beautiful (it was a problem for her - ugly face).
    She still needs braces in the worst way. If her parents can afford figure skating you'd think they could afford those.

  3. #423
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Perhaps they made her choose

  4. #424
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    This Cesario stuff is why she should just be sent to Senior B or Pros already.

    Honestly, the focus here should be how Pogorilaya's performance lacked for a bronze, and not how the mature and underskilled Cesario was more artistic than the little Russian girl. I feel sorry for Cesario for the fact that she's being defended with "she was more artistic, besides her LACK OF TECHNICAL ABILITIES".

    Just making sure, Radionova was the most artistic out of the top five by miles, who is not necessarily a standout for artistry. I usually root for all fairness, but the fact that Cesario is being compared to Julia and Pogorilaya's HORRIBLE artistries and not even Radionova's just-above-average artistry tells something.

  5. #425
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    The way some people have been talking, you would have thought Pogo had a meltdown in the FS, when in reality she landed 7 fully rotated triples, 2 of them lutzes, and 2 double axels . The leggy vampire just can't get a break. It's also worth noting spins did not help Samantha while Pogo got the levels for hers, which are veryy fast with good positions too. Step outs, turn outs, hand downs only cost you a point or two in GOE...given that, I fail to see how her score was unreasonable given those of Radio and Lip. You go for the hard content and it pays off. Anna had issues with 3 or 4 of the jump landings but her program content was really ambitious and she rotated all of it. The jumps she didn't step out of were nice, I don't get why people say her jumps are so small? They look pretty high to me. The basics are also fine and for 14 her speed and power are quite good. Yeah the polish and artistry aren't there yet, but unless you're a prodigy, that's to be expected at 14, and that's also likely why the judges gave her PCS in the low 6s. I'm failing to see the travesty here. Plus the margin was like 6 points so not even that close really. Also as the number 3 Russian and one with like no reputation or experience at that I find it hard to believe the judging was rigged so to speak.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    The way some people have been talking, you would have thought Pogo had a meltdown in the FS, when in reality she landed 7 fully rotated triples, 2 of them lutzes, and 2 double axels . The leggy vampire just can't get a break. It's also worth noting spins did not help Samantha while Pogo got the levels for hers, which are veryy fast with good positions too. Step outs, turn outs, hand downs only cost you a point or two in GOE...given that, I fail to see how her score was unreasonable given those of Radio and Lip. You go for the hard content and it pays off. Anna had issues with 3 or 4 of the jump landings but her program content was really ambitious and she rotated all of it. The jumps she didn't step out of were nice, I don't get why people say her jumps are so small? They look pretty high to me. The basics are also fine and for 14 her speed and power are quite good. Yeah the polish and artistry aren't there yet, but unless you're a prodigy, that's to be expected at 14, and that's also likely why the judges gave her PCS in the low 6s. I'm failing to see the travesty here. Plus the margin was like 6 points so not even that close really. Also as the number 3 Russian and one with like no reputation or experience at that I find it hard to believe the judging was rigged so to speak.
    She looked amazingly polished in her exhibition program but her competitive skating looks a bit messy, even when she is clean. She is very likable though. I feel this is the same discussion people had with Kostner's silver in 2008. The jumps were rotated, the technical content was there, but the overall look was bad because of the multiple bad landings. I have no problem with her scores, they make sense. As far as I understand, people are mad about some "<" Samantha got on some of her jumps and very low PCS, especially compared to what the Russian ladies got.

  7. #427
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    The strick technical panel made the sport creditable. If not, why bother using COP? A '<' is a '<'. Nothing to argue about. Some are using PCS to hold up some skaters and put down others. But beauty is in the eyes of beholders. At least for me, I don't care that much about heavy skating with messy technical content. Most important, I am not professional. I always respect the judges' work. If I know more than those people, I will get certificate and quit my job to become a judge. For now I can only hope my favorites skate well and place high.

  8. #428
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    The discussion of an underage skater's supposedly unappealing looks in the last few days is in very poor taste, and the participation of a moderator is disappointing to say the least. I'm surprised it was allowed to continue. This, and other posts I have seen here, makes me feel as though this is not the Golden Skate I enjoyed so much when I started out posting.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsfan View Post
    The strick technical panel made the sport creditable. If not, why bother using COP? A '<' is a '<'. Nothing to argue about. Some are using PCS to hold up some skaters and put down others. But beauty is in the eyes of beholders. At least for me, I don't care that much about heavy skating with messy technical content. Most important, I am not professional. I always respect the judges' work. If I know more than those people, I will get certificate and quit my job to become a judge. For now I can only hope my favorites skate well and place high.
    That's the problem, some panels are more lenient while others are extremely strict and the scores from one competition to another for similar skates are very different. I would say a more consistent way of scoring would make the sport more creditable. Maybe the rules should be more accurate. And stop penalizing the skaters twice for the same mistake (I see no reason to give negative GOE for an Ur'd jump if the jump is cleanly executed).

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    That's the problem, some panels are more lenient while others are extremely strict and the scores from one competition to another for similar skates are very different. I would say a more consistent way of scoring would make the sport more creditable. Maybe the rules should be more accurate. And stop penalizing the skaters twice for the same mistake (I see no reason to give negative GOE for an Ur'd jump if the jump is cleanly executed).

  11. #431
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    I thought Samantha had nice, high jumps, but the under-rotations were pretty clear to me. I could see a case being made for her to be 3rd, but 4th is also reasonable. I noticed 3 URs watching so maybe the 5 was a bit harsh, and I would have given most of the jumps +1s for GOE instead of the -1s she primarily got. So if that had happened, she probably could have snuck in for bronze but I doubt it would have been enough to overtake Lip. Julia may skate through the music but her control is amazing, everything she does is just like so neat and clean. The 2ax is small with ugly technique but the rest of her jumps seem perfectly adequate in size and technique - she is a tiny girl, so given that it makes sense her jumps are not huge. Plus unlike Radio and Pogo Julia does not have the gangly all legs look so she may well stay a very petite person even when she is finished with puberty, in which case her jumps being smaller and controlled becomes more acceptable, usually the power jumpers are the skaters who are taller and/or stronger in their builds. And Pogo does remind me a bit of Kostner so I'm not surprised the judges go for her skating, there's a lot to admire there, the content, the confidence, speed, competitive spirit, statuesque body type. It's all a bit wild and unpolished for now (though I agree in the EX she was surprisingly polished and expressive and Julia seemed considerably more musical and emotional during the EX too ) but you get a lot of that at Junior Worlds so I think it's fair to reward what is good about the skating.

    While Samantha is very elegant and polished, I don't know if her basics, edges, speed, etc. are really considerably better than the Russian girls so I think the PCS sort of make sense. Mid-6s for PCS is pretty good, especially at a junior event, so it's not like the judges completely hosed her, it's just more her technical issues amounted to a deficit her strong and polished presentation couldn't quite make up for, so the result is 4th place. She was still the highest placed American here so she should be proud of that. I mean Pogo beat the reigning senior World silver medalist at Russian Nationals along with GP skaters like Makarova, Korobeynikova who have considerable international results to their names, and Elena and Julia have been wonderbabies for years now, so the fact that those 3 are the only ones who beat Sam, WITH all those URs, at this JW with such a huge number of competitors, speaks pretty highly of Samantha's ability.

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