Kirk & Lease w/PJKwong on Ladies

jatale · Mar 9, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfc3uMe80lU

Quick Summary: They think Caro is the favorite going into Worlds. If Yuna is "all in" and skates clean, which they don't think is that likely with her entry in only two minor competitions this season, she is the best and would win. Mao could win if she skates her best. Overall a pretty good discussion I think.

Li'Kitsu · Mar 9, 2013

Caro will win, while Yuna won't because she's so unlikely to be clean? That's just weird. Yuna is definitly more likely than Caro (and Mao) to be clean.
It depends on Ashley if she will get the bronze over Yuna? Come on, no matter how clean Ash is, this is definitly in Yunas hands. If everyone is clean, Ashley won't be on that podium, no other lady could touch a clean trio of Mao, Yuna and Caro.

Akiko has nothing special/memorable about her? She doesn't have enough fight? Man, this is so wrong I don't now where to start. Just because Akiko manages to display happiness and joy more than anything else through her skating does definitly not mean she lacks fight.

I guess there might have been some good comments too... but those three there just canceled everything else out for me. Weird.

Scrufflet · Mar 9, 2013

Wow. I am really enjoying these three. First time I've seen Dave. He's a scream!

hurrah · Mar 9, 2013

It was a totally strange discussion. I can understand one of them predicting that Carolina would win just for the sake of the argument, but all three agreeing to that is just weird. It was like they didn't want to say who they really believed was going to win. I bet they are jealous of either Yuna or Mao winning because that would add to these skaters' legendary fodder, and maybe they can't stand to have anyone becoming a legend above Michelle Kwan. Oh so provincially North American, are they not?

And with Akiko, it was like they were conflicted because a part of them wanted to promote Akiko so as to bring down Mao, but they also wanted to promote Ashley over Akiko and so ended up dissing Akiko. :disagree:

Krislite · Mar 9, 2013

Li'Kitsu said:
Caro will win, while Yuna won't because she's so unlikely to be clean? That's just weird. Yuna is definitly more likely than Caro (and Mao) to be clean.
It depends on Ashley if she will get the bronze over Yuna? Come on, no matter how clean Ash is, this is definitly in Yunas hands. If everyone is clean, Ashley won't be on that podium, no other lady could touch a clean trio of Mao, Yuna and Caro.

Akiko has nothing special/memorable about her? She doesn't have enough fight? Man, this is so wrong I don't now where to start. Just because Akiko manages to display happiness and joy more than anything else through her skating does definitly not mean she lacks fight.

I guess there might have been some good comments too... but those three there just canceled everything else out for me. Weird.

I know Kirk and PJKwong aren't big on Yuna, but the comment on Akiko really irked me. I agree that's bizarre of them to say she has nothing special and not enough fight. :disapp: For a girl who's overcome what she has to shine late in her figure skating career...

Ashley winning bronze over Yuna? LOL. Don't even get me started. For figure skating "experts" to claim that is just incomprehensible.

Mathman · Mar 9, 2013

hurrah said:
I bet they are jealous of either Yuna or Mao winning because that would add to these skaters' legendary fodder, and maybe they can't stand to have anyone becoming a legend above Michelle Kwan.

You nailed it! :yes: Right now Yuna, Mao and Carolina together have four world championships. One more and they will catch up to Michelle! So us Kwan fans are rooting for someone else -- anyone else -- to win.

emma · Mar 9, 2013

^ Akiko or Ashley for gold

Seriously - I am really looking forward to this worlds - first time in a while i felt there was a lot of excitement and potential for amazing 'stuff' in the women's event...I found myself remember the last Olympics Ladies LP - I didn't expect it would be so thrilling, but that final flight really was. Here's hoping the women really bring it at worlds in both the SP and LP!!!

rkuang · Mar 9, 2013

I'm sorry to disagree, but I agree with them about Akiko. BUT, that's not to say I don't love her. In fact, I love her more because she will never be a gold contender. It's admirable and shows perseverance. But I can totally see where they are coming from, and it's not out of disrespect.

I am surprised they picked Caro when Mao's BV is so, so gigantic. But like they said, the top 4 or 5 are all the same names, but people just rearrange them in different orders. I don't think this is too biased of a conversation and I enjoy their videos a lot

sky_fly20 · Mar 9, 2013

hurrah said:
And with Akiko, it was like they were conflicted because a part of them wanted to promote Akiko so as to bring down Mao, but they also wanted to promote Ashley over Akiko and so ended up dissing Akiko. :disagree:

yeah this was the weirdest :scratch:

Li'Kitsu · Mar 9, 2013

rkuang said:
I'm sorry to disagree, but I agree with them about Akiko. BUT, that's not to say I don't love her. In fact, I love her more because she will never be a gold contender. It's admirable and shows perseverance. But I can totally see where they are coming from, and it's not out of disrespect.

But having something special/memoreable and being a gold contender are not the same thing.
It's fine if they think Aiko isn't a contender for gold/the podium. But that's not what I disliked about their discussion so much, it's how they said Akiko didn't have any strengths (other than "having no weaknesses"). But Akiko has strengths - she doesn't have the most difficult jumps (although she still trumps Ashley, who's PJ's podium pick over Yuna :scratch: ), but she's an outstanding artist. Her LP this season is magical - I'm quite sure I will remember that, even if she'd never win major titles with it.

sky_fly20 · Mar 9, 2013

Its bizzare how they would come out of having Yuna off the podium ? LOL
and below Ashley who has underperformed since the GPF, Ashley is only an outside shout and that is still a long shot
Gold has a better chance of medaling than Wagner imo

rkuang · Mar 9, 2013

Li'Kitsu said:
But having something special/memoreable and being a gold contender are not the same thing.
It's fine if they think Aiko isn't a contender for gold/the podium. But that's not what I disliked about their discussion so much, it's how they said Akiko didn't have any strengths (other than "having no weaknesses"). But Akiko has strengths - she doesn't have the most difficult jumps (although she still trumps Ashley, who's PJ's podium pick over Yuna :scratch: ), but she's an outstanding artist. Her LP this season is magical - I'm quite sure I will remember that, even if she'd never win major titles with it.

It's not that she doesn't have any strengths (also, I don't think that's what they were saying, but people will interpret their criticisms to any degree of severity), but that there are so many skaters this season who have great artistry and also terrific LP's. Akiko is very musical and joyful (the joy is my favorite part about her), but that doesn't mean others are not, and that's where Akiko seems to be undermined time and again. We're also seeing a lot of upgrades technically from others this season, so again, it's not that Akiko is weak, but that perceptions are being tweaked here.

And let's not fall prey to the fact that Akiko and Ashley have been compared a lot this season as a excuse to diss Ashley. I respect them both (and many of the top contenders this year) and they've both gotten good results this year. These are wonderful ladies.

Mrs. P · Mar 9, 2013

Take for what it is folks, opinion. I think Yuna will be on the podium -- she has NEVER been off the podium at Worlds even in 2011 when that was her first and oly competition and it was clear her heart was not into it.

I hope Ashley will retain a solid ranking, but I think she could sneak on the podium if Mao or Carolina falters.

Li'Kitsu · Mar 9, 2013

rkuang said:
It's not that she doesn't have any strengths (also, I don't think that's what they were saying, but people will interpret their criticisms to any degree of severity), but that there are so many skaters this season who have great artistry and also terrific LP's. Akiko is very musical and joyful (the joy is my favorite part about her), but that doesn't mean others are not, and that's where Akiko seems to be undermined time and again. We're also seeing a lot of upgrades technically from others this season, so again, it's not that Akiko is weak, but that perceptions are being tweaked here.

Why are you going back to bringing up the technical difficulty? Again, no objection with that assessment. But Kirk said "there's nothing special/memoreable about her skating" (this is not interpretation, that's what she said), and Lease adds "she lacks that killer instinct". THAT is what I disagree with so much.
And why would anyone just want to misinterpretate what they say into something worse than it is? It's two people I don't have any clue about who they are to begin with and PJ, who I usually just don't pay attention to that much. I just think they're saying some pretty weird stuff.

And let's not fall prey to the fact that Akiko and Ashley have been compared a lot this season as a excuse to diss Ashley. I respect them both (and many of the top contenders this year) and they've both gotten good results this year. These are wonderful ladies.

I don't really get what this has to do with anything... I certainly don't want to diss Ashley, and it's not about comparing Ashley to Akiko at all. PJ&Co. are definitly putting Ashley above Akiko though, they're even putting her in the same league as Yuna, Mao and Caro. And that's just not right, like it or not. (I'm not saying it's impossible Ash will be on the podium. If Mao and/or Caro make mistakes and she skates well, she can beat them. But it's about overall skating quality - and in that regard Ash is not up to the standard of the other three).

Scrufflet · Mar 9, 2013

Slightly OT but I liked seeing Kirk's dog come up for a cuddle at the 22:00 minute mark! And I love Dave's remarks about meeting the top women in a dark alley! He's hilarious! I'd love to sit with any of the 3 of them at Worlds!

IndieBoi · Mar 9, 2013

rkuang said:
I'm sorry to disagree, but I agree with them about Akiko. BUT, that's not to say I don't love her. In fact, I love her more because she will never be a gold contender. It's admirable and shows perseverance. But I can totally see where they are coming from, and it's not out of disrespect.

I too think what they say about Akiko makes sense. I think Akiko is a lovely skater; her skating is evenly beautiful but nothing superlative about it competition-wise.

In tennis some competitors are great enough all-around players to win some titles on the tour, but lack the big weapons and/or mental fortitude to be Grand Slam champions. (Caroline Wozniacki comes to mind -- It doesn't take anything away from Wozniacki as hundreds of tennis ladies would kill to have Wozniacki's career. )

aftertherain · Mar 9, 2013

hurrah said:
It was a totally strange discussion. I can understand one of them predicting that Carolina would win just for the sake of the argument, but all three agreeing to that is just weird. It was like they didn't want to say who they really believed was going to win. I bet they are jealous of either Yuna or Mao winning because that would add to these skaters' legendary fodder, and maybe they can't stand to have anyone becoming a legend above Michelle Kwan. Oh so provincially North American, are they not?

Darn, you've figured out how all of us North Americans think! We are sooo jealous.

And you're forgetting Jenny Kirk competed against Michelle for a number of years. Kind of hard to root for someone you're competing against while you're competing against them.

suzukifan27 · Mar 9, 2013

Ashley over Yuna? LOL. They first talked about that Ashley's lack of 3+3 in SP would bury her in rankings. Where is the consistency? Asheley has not done any 3+3 in ages. How many ladies can do 3+3 or 3A? At least 8-10! Ashley is toast. She does not have the technical content. It might work at Nationals, but not at worlds.

Caro? Queen of Inconsistency over Yu Na?

aftertherain · Mar 9, 2013

Akiko's free skating program this season and last season actually remind me a little bit of that of Kwan's programs (Her arabesque/Kerrigan spirals are of note). I actually really like these two programs and I think they actually make her stand out.

figuristka · Mar 9, 2013

Perhaps Akiko is not so naturally talented as Mao, or Yuna but don't agree that she isn't something special. I think she is one of the few ladies who is so musical and gives off a joyful feeling when she skates. Don't have to have a diva attitude to make it memorable. I won't be forgetting her beautiful LP this season. I predicted Mao,Yuna, then Carolina. Akiko 4th but would love her be first or second. Wagner i thought 5th.

Kirk & Lease w/PJKwong on Ladies

jatale

Li'Kitsu

Scrufflet

hurrah

Krislite

Mathman

emma

rkuang

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

Li'Kitsu

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

rkuang

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Li'Kitsu

Scrufflet

IndieBoi

aftertherain

suzukifan27

Match Penalty

aftertherain

figuristka

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