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Thread: What's gone wrong for Russian & Japan at 2013 Worlds?

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    What's gone wrong for Russian & Japan at 2013 Worlds?

    Thus far (after the Pairs SP, the Men's SP, & the Ladies SP), these world championships have been something of a disaster for Russia and Japan. Only Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov have performed to anywhere near their best for Russia. Sotnikova made some mistakes, but Kovtun, Tuk, and Leonova were truly awful. As for Japan, only Murakami has performed to expectations. Takahashi, Asada, and Suzuki were below par, and Hanyu came spectacularly unstuck. In contrast, the North Americans look far better prepared (particularly, the Canadians on home turf), and the Europeans (minus Russia) are performing as expected.

    So what has gone wrong for Russia and Japan thus far? I think Japan are just have a bad championships, which can happen from time to time. Russia, however, just look mentally out of it and this is not the first time this has happened in recent times. They need to seriously think about investing in a team of sports psychologists, and addressing the issue of how their athletes prepare mentally for major championships. As the old cliche goes, you can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have the temperament to go with it, you will get nowhere.

    Russia are now pretty much doomed to going into the 2014 home Olympics with just 1 competitor in the Men's event and 2 in the Ladies event. Whilst that is obviously not what they wanted, in the long run it will do them good, because the temperament issue is one which has needed addressing for a long time. Normally, change only tends to come about through failure

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    I'm trying to be optimistic now and want to say that may be it's good to have a falldown now then the next year..Men?There are NO men except Plusheno or very young Kovtun. Ladies? There are no ladies yet, just very promising young girls. They did what they could for today, that's what matters...What can I say? It's about experience. Home turf or not, they gotta be good to win. They were not at their best today. Hope they have another chance at Sochi with this experience + the home crowd behind them!=)

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    Russia wishes it was japan here. Russia has seen a massive disaster in singles that is just the worst thing imaginable for it. I think it's just a horrible psyching out of everyone. They're all choking in singles. I don't know why pairs hasn't been affected. Maybe because v/t and k/s have some maturity? Maybe it's a horrible immaturity? This is such a huge embarrassing disaster for Russia. Obviously picking kovtun looks idiotic. Sotnikova and tuktamisheva look like overhyped minimal talents. Leonova also really bad. Their top skater in singles is 8th.

    Slc city Olympics- Russia did very bad, Vancouver Olympics Russia did very bad. Vancouver saw 3 golds slc five golds. Russians stink in north America now? Extremely hostile press makes younger people uncomfortable? This is massive pr disaster and a huge embarrassment. These skaters are supposed to be talented! Remember the reaction after Vancouver? People talking about firing piseev?

    It's awful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post

    Slc city Olympics- Russia did very bad, Vancouver Olympics Russia did very bad. Vancouver saw 3 golds slc five golds. Russians stink in north America now? Extremely hostile press makes younger people uncomfortable? This is massive pr disaster and a huge embarrassment. These skaters are supposed to be talented! Remember the reaction after Vancouver? People talking about firing piseev?

    It's awful.
    I remember many interviews they are uncomfortable skating in North America. don't know if its the time or culture difference
    they have stated many times they are not welcome there, I'm sure they'll be fine by next Season too bad though it will cost them a few spots removed probably
    Canada will get all 3 spots in all 4 discipines, talk about home convenience

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    I can tell you exactly what's wrong with the Russian men: they allowed politics to override form and picked the wrong guy.

    Would Menshov have got a top ten? Can't say. Maybe. Maybe not. But he is a seasoned competitor at the Senior level; at least he likely would have known how to deal with it better.

    Had they been smart, they could have had a JWC or at least a Junior World medallist, AND be doing reasonably at SW.

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    I think its WAY too early to call these championships a disaster for either side. I suspect the Japanese men in particular to come back strong in the long. A medal is not impossible. Likewise Mao in the ladies section. All Japanese ladies will likely place in the top 10 and their 3 places for Sochi aren't really in jeopardy. For Russia, I think the pairs and dance were their strong sections anyway. I expected that they would get 2 women rather than 3 (the three they got this year being the result of lower standards last year, and thus not really sustainable). It seems that will be the case. I also suspect Liza in particular to pick up a few places in the long. Kovtun could too, but again I don't think it was really expected that he would place in the top 10, otherwise the Russian fed wouldn't have requested two guaranteed mens' spots for Sochi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    I remember many interviews they are uncomfortable skating in North America. don't know if its the time or culture difference
    they have stated many times they are not welcome there, I'm sure they'll be fine by next Season too bad though it will cost them a few spots removed probably
    Canada will get all 3 spots in all 4 discipines, talk about home convenience
    Yeah I have read similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    Why do you say that? I think it's clear they are talented. That's the thing.
    They didn't show their talent in the Sps.

    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I can tell you exactly what's wrong with the Russian men: they allowed politics to override form and picked the wrong guy.

    Would Menshov have got a top ten? Can't say. Maybe. Maybe not. But he is a seasoned competitor at the Senior level; at least he likely would have known how to deal with it better.

    Had they been smart, they could have had a JWC or at least a Junior World medallist, AND be doing reasonably at SW.
    They allowed tarasova too much power

    Looks like b/s ended the run of complete catastrophic short programs. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Russia wishes it was japan here. Russia has seen a massive disaster in singles that is just the worst thing imaginable for it. I think it's just a horrible psyching out of everyone. They're all choking in singles. I don't know why pairs hasn't been affected. Maybe because v/t and k/s have some maturity? Maybe it's a horrible immaturity? This is such a huge embarrassing disaster for Russia. Obviously picking kovtun looks idiotic. Sotnikova and tuktamisheva look like overhyped minimal talents. Leonova also really bad. Their top skater in singles is 8th.

    Slc city Olympics- Russia did very bad, Vancouver Olympics Russia did very bad. Vancouver saw 3 golds slc five golds. Russians stink in north America now? Extremely hostile press makes younger people uncomfortable? This is massive pr disaster and a huge embarrassment. These skaters are supposed to be talented! Remember the reaction after Vancouver? People talking about firing piseev?

    It's awful.
    Why do you say that? I think it's clear they are talented. That's the thing.

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    I'd say this, if they continue treat their athletes the way they treated BOTH Kovtun and Menchov, they will continue to be psychologically weak. You don't treat your people like that and then expect them to perform, not with COP, things are a bit more objective than with the 6.0 system. They need to do something to boost the morale of their athletes and fast. They need to lead the way with exemplary character, just starting for example with how coaches talk about their athletes in the press and the way some like to vilify the charges of other coaches in the press, and yes I am referring to Stavisky, just in case I wasn't clear enough. Leadership needs to show some class, and yes I'm referring to the TAT here. Character begets character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    I'd say this, if they continue treat their athletes the way they treated BOTH Kovtun and Menchov, they will continue to be psychologically weak. You don't treat your people like that and then expect them to perform, not with COP, things are a bit more objective than with the 6.0 system. They need to do something to boost the morale of their athletes and fast. They need to lead the way with exemplary character, just starting for example with how coaches talk about their athletes in the press and the way some like to vilify the charges of other coaches in the press, and yes I am referring to Stavisky, just in case I wasn't clear enough. Leadership needs to show some class, and yes I'm referring to the TAT here. Character begets character.
    ITA! My thoughts exactly.

    Menshov deserved to be at Worlds, and he may have placed higher than Kovtun, while Kovtun might have possibly become a World Junior champion or World Junior medalist this year. I get the feeling though that perhaps TAT and some in Russian fed may have thought that sending Kovtun to this Worlds would give him experience and set him up for Sochi with perhaps the added bonus of regaining two mens spots for Russia (and even if one spot remained, they may have felt Kovtun would be better prepared for Olympics and Worlds stage next year should Plush be too crippled to attend). Obviously, EPIC FAIL on all counts.

    Kinda funny that if Soviet Union hadn't broken up, Denis Ten would be representing that entity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    ITA! My thoughts exactly.

    Kinda funny that if Soviet Union hadn't broken up, Denis Ten would be representing that entity.
    Not necessarily - we will never know for sure but the fact is there is an incredible amount of racism in Russia despite it being a fairly diverse country. Denis Ten's ancestry would not sit well with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian. This means he may have been selected out in their process much earlier before being able to shine and prove his worth. It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian. Even then, during the 2010 Olympics, some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian as their #1 Pair and were lamenting about this "sad fact". Why they feel the need to call it sad is pure racism. That said, not everyone thinks like that. Tamara Moksvina and Alexander Smirnov certainly supported her, as did many others who were convinced by her resolve which led her to being granted Russian citizenship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Not necessarily - we will never know for sure but the fact is there is an incredible amount of racism in Russia despite it being a fairly diverse country. Denis Ten's ancestry would not sit well with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian. This means he may have been selected out in their process much earlier before being able to shine and prove his worth. It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian. Even then, during the 2010 Olympics, some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian as their #1 Pair and were lamenting about this "sad fact". Why they feel the need to call it sad is pure racism. That said, not everyone thinks like that. Tamara Moksvina and Alexander Smirnov certainly supported her, as did many others who were convinced by her resolve which led her to being granted Russian citizenship.
    interesting view in so many ways you have first of all," with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian" what's that? caucasians are not the main here, not idael 100%.where did you get that from?
    second, "It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian" -hmm?? she is not russkaya, as we can say, but if she has her Russian passport then she IS Russian. These things are different. Nobody bullies these sportsmen=/
    "some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian"-I didn't hear anything like that not on official forums or/ especially, in the news

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