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Thread: What's gone wrong for Russian & Japan at 2013 Worlds?

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    What's gone wrong for Russian & Japan at 2013 Worlds?

    Thus far (after the Pairs SP, the Men's SP, & the Ladies SP), these world championships have been something of a disaster for Russia and Japan. Only Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov have performed to anywhere near their best for Russia. Sotnikova made some mistakes, but Kovtun, Tuk, and Leonova were truly awful. As for Japan, only Murakami has performed to expectations. Takahashi, Asada, and Suzuki were below par, and Hanyu came spectacularly unstuck. In contrast, the North Americans look far better prepared (particularly, the Canadians on home turf), and the Europeans (minus Russia) are performing as expected.

    So what has gone wrong for Russia and Japan thus far? I think Japan are just have a bad championships, which can happen from time to time. Russia, however, just look mentally out of it and this is not the first time this has happened in recent times. They need to seriously think about investing in a team of sports psychologists, and addressing the issue of how their athletes prepare mentally for major championships. As the old cliche goes, you can have all the talent in the world, but if you don't have the temperament to go with it, you will get nowhere.

    Russia are now pretty much doomed to going into the 2014 home Olympics with just 1 competitor in the Men's event and 2 in the Ladies event. Whilst that is obviously not what they wanted, in the long run it will do them good, because the temperament issue is one which has needed addressing for a long time. Normally, change only tends to come about through failure

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    I'm trying to be optimistic now and want to say that may be it's good to have a falldown now then the next year..Men?There are NO men except Plusheno or very young Kovtun. Ladies? There are no ladies yet, just very promising young girls. They did what they could for today, that's what matters...What can I say? It's about experience. Home turf or not, they gotta be good to win. They were not at their best today. Hope they have another chance at Sochi with this experience + the home crowd behind them!=)

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    Russia wishes it was japan here. Russia has seen a massive disaster in singles that is just the worst thing imaginable for it. I think it's just a horrible psyching out of everyone. They're all choking in singles. I don't know why pairs hasn't been affected. Maybe because v/t and k/s have some maturity? Maybe it's a horrible immaturity? This is such a huge embarrassing disaster for Russia. Obviously picking kovtun looks idiotic. Sotnikova and tuktamisheva look like overhyped minimal talents. Leonova also really bad. Their top skater in singles is 8th.

    Slc city Olympics- Russia did very bad, Vancouver Olympics Russia did very bad. Vancouver saw 3 golds slc five golds. Russians stink in north America now? Extremely hostile press makes younger people uncomfortable? This is massive pr disaster and a huge embarrassment. These skaters are supposed to be talented! Remember the reaction after Vancouver? People talking about firing piseev?

    It's awful.

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    I'd say this, if they continue treat their athletes the way they treated BOTH Kovtun and Menchov, they will continue to be psychologically weak. You don't treat your people like that and then expect them to perform, not with COP, things are a bit more objective than with the 6.0 system. They need to do something to boost the morale of their athletes and fast. They need to lead the way with exemplary character, just starting for example with how coaches talk about their athletes in the press and the way some like to vilify the charges of other coaches in the press, and yes I am referring to Stavisky, just in case I wasn't clear enough. Leadership needs to show some class, and yes I'm referring to the TAT here. Character begets character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post

    Slc city Olympics- Russia did very bad, Vancouver Olympics Russia did very bad. Vancouver saw 3 golds slc five golds. Russians stink in north America now? Extremely hostile press makes younger people uncomfortable? This is massive pr disaster and a huge embarrassment. These skaters are supposed to be talented! Remember the reaction after Vancouver? People talking about firing piseev?

    It's awful.
    I remember many interviews they are uncomfortable skating in North America. don't know if its the time or culture difference
    they have stated many times they are not welcome there, I'm sure they'll be fine by next Season too bad though it will cost them a few spots removed probably
    Canada will get all 3 spots in all 4 discipines, talk about home convenience

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Russia wishes it was japan here. Russia has seen a massive disaster in singles that is just the worst thing imaginable for it. I think it's just a horrible psyching out of everyone. They're all choking in singles. I don't know why pairs hasn't been affected. Maybe because v/t and k/s have some maturity? Maybe it's a horrible immaturity? This is such a huge embarrassing disaster for Russia. Obviously picking kovtun looks idiotic. Sotnikova and tuktamisheva look like overhyped minimal talents. Leonova also really bad. Their top skater in singles is 8th.

    Slc city Olympics- Russia did very bad, Vancouver Olympics Russia did very bad. Vancouver saw 3 golds slc five golds. Russians stink in north America now? Extremely hostile press makes younger people uncomfortable? This is massive pr disaster and a huge embarrassment. These skaters are supposed to be talented! Remember the reaction after Vancouver? People talking about firing piseev?

    It's awful.
    Why do you say that? I think it's clear they are talented. That's the thing.

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    I can tell you exactly what's wrong with the Russian men: they allowed politics to override form and picked the wrong guy.

    Would Menshov have got a top ten? Can't say. Maybe. Maybe not. But he is a seasoned competitor at the Senior level; at least he likely would have known how to deal with it better.

    Had they been smart, they could have had a JWC or at least a Junior World medallist, AND be doing reasonably at SW.

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    I think its WAY too early to call these championships a disaster for either side. I suspect the Japanese men in particular to come back strong in the long. A medal is not impossible. Likewise Mao in the ladies section. All Japanese ladies will likely place in the top 10 and their 3 places for Sochi aren't really in jeopardy. For Russia, I think the pairs and dance were their strong sections anyway. I expected that they would get 2 women rather than 3 (the three they got this year being the result of lower standards last year, and thus not really sustainable). It seems that will be the case. I also suspect Liza in particular to pick up a few places in the long. Kovtun could too, but again I don't think it was really expected that he would place in the top 10, otherwise the Russian fed wouldn't have requested two guaranteed mens' spots for Sochi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    I remember many interviews they are uncomfortable skating in North America. don't know if its the time or culture difference
    they have stated many times they are not welcome there, I'm sure they'll be fine by next Season too bad though it will cost them a few spots removed probably
    Canada will get all 3 spots in all 4 discipines, talk about home convenience
    Yeah I have read similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    Why do you say that? I think it's clear they are talented. That's the thing.
    They didn't show their talent in the Sps.

    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I can tell you exactly what's wrong with the Russian men: they allowed politics to override form and picked the wrong guy.

    Would Menshov have got a top ten? Can't say. Maybe. Maybe not. But he is a seasoned competitor at the Senior level; at least he likely would have known how to deal with it better.

    Had they been smart, they could have had a JWC or at least a Junior World medallist, AND be doing reasonably at SW.
    They allowed tarasova too much power

    Looks like b/s ended the run of complete catastrophic short programs. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by berrycute View Post
    I think its WAY too early to call these championships a disaster for either side. I suspect the Japanese men in particular to come back strong in the long. A medal is not impossible. Likewise Mao in the ladies section. All Japanese ladies will likely place in the top 10 and their 3 places for Sochi aren't really in jeopardy. For Russia, I think the pairs and dance were their strong sections anyway. I expected that they would get 2 women rather than 3 (the three they got this year being the result of lower standards last year, and thus not really sustainable). It seems that will be the case. I also suspect Liza in particular to pick up a few places in the long. Kovtun could too, but again I don't think it was really expected that he would place in the top 10, otherwise the Russian fed wouldn't have requested two guaranteed mens' spots for Sochi.
    But they still were talking about kovtun earning two spots himself. All the articles mention it and he talks about it. Everyone was talking about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    But they still were talking about kovtun earning two spots himself. All the articles mention it and he talks about it. Everyone was talking about it.
    Wait so how can russia secure a second spot for men in the og if kovtun finishes out of the 10. Is there a qualifying contest or because they are the host? Can they also secure a 3rd spot for the ladies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittosuni View Post
    Wait so how can russia secure a second spot for men in the og if kovtun finishes out of the 10. Is there a qualifying contest or because they are the host? Can they also secure a 3rd spot for the ladies?
    Russia already gets one spot because they are hosting. And they will likely get one here anyway.

    The key disappointment is not getting two spots. He's 19th right now. In theory he could move up if he has the SOHL. But top 10 might be a tall order...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    But they still were talking about kovtun earning two spots himself. All the articles mention it and he talks about it. Everyone was talking about it.
    It was a pretty big if though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittosuni View Post
    Wait so how can russia secure a second spot for men in the og if kovtun finishes out of the 10. Is there a qualifying contest or because they are the host? Can they also secure a 3rd spot for the ladies?
    2 spots for men and 3 spots for ladies is basically over. There is nothing that can be done. They actually had to be good at these worlds! Men and ladies.

    Quote Originally Posted by berrycute View Post
    It was a pretty big if though.
    It was a big if but gachinski did it in 2011 in Moscow. Denis ten placed second in the sp!!!

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    What's gone wrong for Russia?

    Answer: It's bad karma for not sending Gosviani and Menshov.

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