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Thread: What's gone wrong for Russian & Japan at 2013 Worlds?

  1. #16
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    Japan: Takahashi had an injury five years ago. His jumps haven't been as strong so he's prone to calls. Hanyu has been unwell as well, has asthma which means a program can go to pieces quite easily. Mura was undermarked. Asada has spent so much time thinking and overthinking her jump technique that it doesn't come naturally. Murakami and Suzuki did well, despite the error(s).

    Russia: I/K were always gonna get hurt by level calling. Ditto R/T. Bazarova/Larionov have missed two competitions because of injury and are weak jumpers. Kavaguti/Smirnov and Volosozhar/Trankov skated quite well. Kovtun was undertested, his selection controversial, his skills junior. Sotnikova and Tuktamisheva are at the biggest competition of their careers and have nerve issues. Leonova isn't very good. And I suspect Sochi is weighing heavily on all their minds. The desire to enter it as the top skater etc.

  2. #17
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    Russian debacle: Immaturity of their singles' competitors, plain and simple. It's what happens when you send a bunch of teens with only a season or two (or less) at senior level competition. Much more common to see this among young senior skaters of any country than the rarity of finding a 15/16-year old mental toughie like Michelle Kwan. That's what makes Osmond such a "find"--she so far appears to not let being on the big stage ruffle her feathers.

    As to Russian skaters being uncomfortable skating in North America, well boo hoo cry me a river. Sounds like a snivelling excuse to me. I'm sure plenty of North American (and other) skaters feel uncomfortable skating in Russia also, but do so without complaint. You don't get to pick and choose your ISU championship locations if you want to go for the big prizes. If you aren't willing to travel to wherever the competition is located, then maybe getting out of elite international skating is the right decision. Skating ain't for sissies!

    Japanese are just having a bad competition. It's just unusual for the majority of their skaters (Kanako excepted) to all be screwing up at the same time, same competition.

  3. #18
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    No matter what happened today to Liz and Adelina, I firmly believe they are extremely talented skaters. And don't write them off yet for this event. Remember what happened in the sp to Russian pairs last year, and what happened in the lp. They are most likely to move up not move down.

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    Not sure there's anything wrong with Russia. They have their top pair team and that's pretty much what was expected. I'm a Adelina fan but I didn't expect a podium finish although it would be nice Other than that what was expected of the women and the men.

    Now Japan is another story. They are expected to be on or near the podium with their great talent but it's not over.

  5. #20
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    if Russia does manage to get only 2 Ladies, it will be a bloodbath next Season
    I hope Julia will be on that Team

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    What's gone wrong for Russia?

    Answer: It's bad karma for not sending Gosviani and Menshov.
    You mean it's the VOODOO

    LOL Cracks me up every time.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    I'd say this, if they continue treat their athletes the way they treated BOTH Kovtun and Menchov, they will continue to be psychologically weak. You don't treat your people like that and then expect them to perform, not with COP, things are a bit more objective than with the 6.0 system. They need to do something to boost the morale of their athletes and fast. They need to lead the way with exemplary character, just starting for example with how coaches talk about their athletes in the press and the way some like to vilify the charges of other coaches in the press, and yes I am referring to Stavisky, just in case I wasn't clear enough. Leadership needs to show some class, and yes I'm referring to the TAT here. Character begets character.
    ITA! My thoughts exactly.

    Menshov deserved to be at Worlds, and he may have placed higher than Kovtun, while Kovtun might have possibly become a World Junior champion or World Junior medalist this year. I get the feeling though that perhaps TAT and some in Russian fed may have thought that sending Kovtun to this Worlds would give him experience and set him up for Sochi with perhaps the added bonus of regaining two mens spots for Russia (and even if one spot remained, they may have felt Kovtun would be better prepared for Olympics and Worlds stage next year should Plush be too crippled to attend). Obviously, EPIC FAIL on all counts.

    Kinda funny that if Soviet Union hadn't broken up, Denis Ten would be representing that entity.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    Not sure there's anything wrong with Russia. They have their top pair team and that's pretty much what was expected. I'm a Adelina fan but I didn't expect a podium finish although it would be nice Other than that what was expected of the women and the men.

    Now Japan is another story. They are expected to be on or near the podium with their great talent but it's not over.
    Lots is wrong with Russian skaters. Liza had two elements not count. Sotnikova is barely in the top 10. Bad showing from kovtun with 3t-1t. Leonova was poor most of the season. I/k plummeted from last year in the s/d. Their skating isn't anywhere near clean. If you come at from a view "well they weren't going to win medals anyway so who cares?" that's wrong. They could skate respectably and not medal rather than horrendously and not medal.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Japan: Takahashi had an injury five years ago. His jumps haven't been as strong so he's prone to calls. Hanyu has been unwell as well, has asthma which means a program can go to pieces quite easily. Mura was undermarked. Asada has spent so much time thinking and overthinking her jump technique that it doesn't come naturally. Murakami and Suzuki did well, despite the error(s).

    Russia: I/K were always gonna get hurt by level calling. Ditto R/T. Bazarova/Larionov have missed two competitions because of injury and are weak jumpers. Kavaguti/Smirnov and Volosozhar/Trankov skated quite well. Kovtun was undertested, his selection controversial, his skills junior. Sotnikova and Tuktamisheva are at the biggest competition of their careers and have nerve issues. Leonova isn't very good. And I suspect Sochi is weighing heavily on all their minds. The desire to enter it as the top skater etc.
    Mura was generously marked -- he popped a jump and he's no Patrick Chan either, btw.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    ITA! My thoughts exactly.

    Kinda funny that if Soviet Union hadn't broken up, Denis Ten would be representing that entity.
    Not necessarily - we will never know for sure but the fact is there is an incredible amount of racism in Russia despite it being a fairly diverse country. Denis Ten's ancestry would not sit well with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian. This means he may have been selected out in their process much earlier before being able to shine and prove his worth. It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian. Even then, during the 2010 Olympics, some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian as their #1 Pair and were lamenting about this "sad fact". Why they feel the need to call it sad is pure racism. That said, not everyone thinks like that. Tamara Moksvina and Alexander Smirnov certainly supported her, as did many others who were convinced by her resolve which led her to being granted Russian citizenship.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    They allowed tarasova too much power
    Tarasova said she would go next year at the Olys no matter what (she said it before Worlds, that's true). But HOW?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Tarasova said she would go next year at the Olys no matter what (she said it before Worlds, that's true). But HOW?
    she has wet dreams of Kovtun going to the Olympics

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Not necessarily - we will never know for sure but the fact is there is an incredible amount of racism in Russia despite it being a fairly diverse country. Denis Ten's ancestry would not sit well with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian. This means he may have been selected out in their process much earlier before being able to shine and prove his worth. It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian. Even then, during the 2010 Olympics, some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian as their #1 Pair and were lamenting about this "sad fact". Why they feel the need to call it sad is pure racism. That said, not everyone thinks like that. Tamara Moksvina and Alexander Smirnov certainly supported her, as did many others who were convinced by her resolve which led her to being granted Russian citizenship.
    interesting view in so many ways you have first of all," with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian" what's that? caucasians are not the main here, not idael 100%.where did you get that from?
    second, "It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian" -hmm?? she is not russkaya, as we can say, but if she has her Russian passport then she IS Russian. These things are different. Nobody bullies these sportsmen=/
    "some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian"-I didn't hear anything like that not on official forums or/ especially, in the news

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Mura was generously marked -- he popped a jump and he's no Patrick Chan either, btw.
    He has great skating skills and he had a well put together choreographed program that he presented very decently. He keeps getting undermarked on the PCS just because he lacks projection and charisma (even though he has pretty much everything else).

    It's Kozuka all over again.

  15. #30
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    Russian single skaters are in the middle of a big transition with the kids they sent to Worlds this year. It says a lot about Men's skating in Russia when they send a untested Junior skater to Senior Worlds obviously the more Senior men are not very good. As for the Ladies this it there first Worlds as 16 year old's. They are not going to become contenders until after Sochi when they are more experienced and the older skaters finally retire.

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