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Completely agreed!
2013 Worlds Ladies FS
- Thread starter vera01
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Completely agreed!
Overall, the placements were correct in the Ladies event (thank goodness). Let's face it...Yu-na Kim is a singular talent in the history of figure skating. No one combines the generally perfect execution of her jumps with graceful elegance in the same way. She has both the firepower, the mental toughness and the artistic interpretation down pat. Perhaps some of her stellar interpretation skills are attributable simply to the way she looks...she was blessed with a perfect figure skater's body...long arms and legs with everything else proportioned just right. Regardless, she is certainly one of the best figure skaters in figure skating history...it's simply the truth. Sure her scores may be a little inflated, but even if they weren't, she'd still be running away with the gold medal by a mile (when she skates and really means it). No one in this field can really match her when she's at the top of her game.
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Why would Carolina's superior skating skills and GOEs justify your opinion that Kanako should have been in second place? If you are going to say that Kanako was the second best skater of the night, you should raise Kanako's superior qualities, not Carolina's. Your reasoning is faulty. You are basically saying to someone who asserts that bananas are better than oranges, 'No, strawberries are better than bananas and oranges, because oranges are superior in x and x ways.' Makes no sense.
(I really like Kanako, and hope that she can improve her jump technique. Sure she gets the job done, but her jumps aren't very pretty. I think she will slowly fix them.)
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I think Jaylee is saying, even though Carolina has strong skating skills and deservedly high GOEs, nevertheless Jaylee likes Kanako's performance better overall.
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Pretty much.
I anticipated the first counter-response to my opinion being that "Well, Carolina deserved to be higher than Kanako because she has great skating skills and deserves high GOES for her jumps," so I wanted to make it clear that I am aware of that and took that into account already. That's all. My post was just stating a summary opinion, not a comprehensive explanation for my reasoning. I feel confident that I could point to enough facts regarding Kanako's performances to support my opinion, hence why I said it, but I don't have the time or inclination to go into detail right now. I understand that some feel that Kostner deserved second and I understand (and I can respect) their reasons why. I'm not going to get all into their face about it. I happen to feel differently, and that's all.
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Ah, I see. Idioms can be very difficult to master. I can understand that 'taking into account' would be especially difficult because its inflection varies according to its placement in the sentence and in relation to the sentence construction.
I do think Kanako was lowballed in PCS, and hopefully, she'll be getting higher 7s and even 8s next season.
I do think Kanako was lowballed in PCS, and hopefully, she'll be getting higher 7s and even 8s next season.
We also have to remember that a large part of WHY Mao's BV was so high is that she had her triple axel ratified this competition. If she were to do a 2A instead, she would lose over 5 points in BV and consequently have a lower base value than Yuna's. And like you've all mentioned, Mao's GOEs can't even begin to compare with Yuna, so she HAS to attempt a harder layout in order to stay competitive.
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- Jan 25, 2013
I agree. Even had she rotated both 3Ls, her score would have still been around 4 or 5 points higher... 127/128... essentially would have still pushed her to 4th behind a flawed Mao and Kostner, which is pretty wrong considering Kostner and Mao's errors in the SP. I mean, come on, with Mao's and Kostner's frees, they received a 6 and 8 point PCS cushion over Kanako.
I must say though that Kostner's Bolero was performed the way I would hope... she finally made the first half interesting, to go with the second half, and she added in that lovely 3F-3T, so I'm cool with her getting 2nd. Otherwise it would have been a fall in the SP and a 4-triple FS being enough to hit the podium at Worlds, which would have been pretty awful, even if it is a good skater like Kostner.
But I would have certainly put Li over her and Asada in the FS (the 8 points that Li beat Kostner technically was made up by a 12-point PCS gap).
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Li was underscored in the FS to make sure she went behind Gold. I mentioned this right at time while the event was going but I think even the judges wanted to see the U.S get 3 spots back, just like all of us did, and Li would have been a potential wrench in those plans so stingy PCS was the best way to try and stop that (as it turns out the U.S would have still gotten 3 spots even had she beaten both Wagner and Gold, but there was no way to know that at the time).
Either way any talk from Kim haters of Kim having inflated scores is laughable when it in fact it could be questioned if Kostner and Asada even deserved their placings over Murakami (and Li in the LP phase alone, although certainly still beating her overall given the SPs) at all. At the time I was ok with Kostner and Asada medaling over Murakami as their performances were extremely strong apart from the couple mistakes, and Murakami probably had some URs like usual. However seeing the performance again I am not even sure of those UR calls anymore, and that she wouldnt have had the points to be ahead even without them, when she was basically tied with Kostner in the short and several points up on Asada after the SP to begin with, is quite puzzling. I was happy with the podium as I love all 3 skaters, and liked all their performances, but I can definitely see why some are upset Murakami did not medal with her essentialy clean skate with many wonderful points, even with her fugly jump technique, over the flawed (albeit still very strong, but not perfecT) SP and LP performances of Kostner and Asada.
Either way any talk from Kim haters of Kim having inflated scores is laughable when it in fact it could be questioned if Kostner and Asada even deserved their placings over Murakami (and Li in the LP phase alone, although certainly still beating her overall given the SPs) at all. At the time I was ok with Kostner and Asada medaling over Murakami as their performances were extremely strong apart from the couple mistakes, and Murakami probably had some URs like usual. However seeing the performance again I am not even sure of those UR calls anymore, and that she wouldnt have had the points to be ahead even without them, when she was basically tied with Kostner in the short and several points up on Asada after the SP to begin with, is quite puzzling. I was happy with the podium as I love all 3 skaters, and liked all their performances, but I can definitely see why some are upset Murakami did not medal with her essentialy clean skate with many wonderful points, even with her fugly jump technique, over the flawed (albeit still very strong, but not perfecT) SP and LP performances of Kostner and Asada.
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Fair enough. Sometimes it comes across alot differently live and while I have seen alot of these skaters live, I have yet to see Gold in person. That said it sure felt like Li had the most inspiring performance of the 2nd last group by a large margin, but I just knew she wouldnt be going into 1st regardless.
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- Aug 8, 2009
As long as Mao can't get a lutz, Mao does need a triple-axel to beat Yuna. It's that simple, and once the decision to include a triple-axel is taken, the planned BV will shoot up as a matter of course. And Mao might as well put in a 3axel now, if the worst likely scenario is a double-footed landing. She'll get negative GOEs, but the jump pass would still be worth about 6 points, and at best, she would get around 9-10 points.
If Mao does manage to master a stable lutz technique during the off-season, it would become a different ball game. A short program with four triple jumps would become realistic. Imagine that!
Get the lutz, Mao!
oh really, that win was fully deserved, since a win is determined by overall score of the sp and fs, she deserved every inch of it. just because the same trolls keept screaming and trolling like they usuelly do, wont change that. let my remind you of real controversial wins:
Ashley winning the US title over Gold
Carolina winning the European championships
and at least Mao NEVER had anything in her score that stood out. her PCS is comparable from competition to competition and doesn't suddenly rise like crazy with the same content. does this remind you of anyone?
it sure is a luxury to have to judges favoritism, since they thereby are able to bury every controversial win or medal, by bestowing them with PCS and letting them win by a clear margin...
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While I agree that it's a combination of SP & FS, Mao did not deserve 117 points in that FS. She was a disaster and I'm sure most would agree that Suzuki was robbed, even with the SP error. Even Mao herself was surprised with the NHK win.
of course since it was close, and and Akiko did win the free, what she and many others keep forgetting was the huge lead Mao had coming into the fs, and combined it just wasn't enough to overtake Mao.
and at least Mao NEVER had anything in her score that stood out. her PCS is comparable from competition to competition and doesn't suddenly rise like crazy with the same content. does this remind you of anyone?
it sure is a luxury to have to judges favoritism, since they thereby are able to bury every controversial win or medal, by bestowing them with PCS and letting them win by a clear margin...
The fact that her PCS rose from Cup of China to NHK can be contested, because I would argue the doubling of her jumps and consequent break from the performance DID affect her performance/execution of the program. Her PCS in the short program also rose significantly from Cup of China to NHK. Additionally, she received positive GOE for her doubled loop and flip, even though there was nothing noteworthy about them to me.
Most of the top skater PCS rose as the season went by, that includes Carolina, Ashley, Akiko.... but none of them suddenly rised in PCS and goe the way Kim did. and doubling a jump is penalized in the BV not in goe, since the jump in itself is beautifully executed and goe means grade of execution
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A SP with 4 Triples is already realistic for her and has been for 3 seasons in a row now. She doesn't need the Lutz. It blows my mind how her coaching team is holding her back. She could be doing either 3A, 3Loop-3Loop, 3Flip OR 3A, 3Flip-3Toe, 3Loop in the Short Program.
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