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Thread: 2013 Worlds Ladies FS

  1. #1696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilith11 View Post
    Idk, based on what I've seen/read here and at fsuniverse, the overwhelming consensus seems to be that even if there's a technical hitch here and there, Mao's Swan Lake has been received as a choreographic masterpiece :/ And thank you very much for generalizing all Yu-na fans. I could say the same for Mao Asada's more fervent fans who apparently think that the KSU is buying Yu-na's "grossly inflated" scores while poor Mao valiantly battles against overwhelmingly unfair odds. There are unreasonable fans on both sides, yes- but to generalize the entire fanbase of one and then dismiss any of their words? Now that doesn't seem very logical to me, but then again, what would I know, I'm just a crazy Yu-na fan.
    Yes, but who actually thinks the KSU has any power? Maybe I am missing out on the more crazy anti-Yuna stuff because I don't speak Japanese. All the stuff I've seen on Youtube is in horrible English, far worse than the anti-Mao stuff; it's like the Youtube Maobots don't even put effort into their drivel. And notice how I don't characterize all Yu-na fans as acting this way. Most of the posters I've come across are very complimentary of both Mao and Yu-na, no matter who they like more.

  2. #1697
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    Yes, but who actually thinks the KSU has any power? Maybe I am missing out on the more crazy anti-Yuna stuff because I don't speak Japanese. All the stuff I've seen on Youtube is in horrible English, far worse than the anti-Mao stuff; it's like the Youtube Maobots don't even put effort into their drivel. And notice how I don't characterize all Yu-na fans as acting this way. Most of the posters I've come across are very complimentary of both Mao and Yu-na, no matter who they like more.
    I mean I assumed the KSU not having power was common knowledge, but like I said before, fervent fans will find some reason, no matter how, objectively speaking, illogical it is that their favorites are not winning. And idk, I'm not assuming they're Japanese, but a quick Youtube search yields videos like these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5G74TyKpkw. Like I said before, they're are overly fervent minorities on both sides, but what's important is judging each fan by his/her own merits, not a generalization imo.

  3. #1698
    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    Boy I am getting tired of this s**t.

    1. Yuna gives an exquisite performance.

    2. A half dozen Yuna-haters here, the same users everytime, post "criticisms" to pick on Yuna, because they just personally don't like her for whatever reason. It gets annoying, because it's the same essential message every time from a same small group of posters.

    3. Some Yuna fans get fed up, and make posts to defend her.

    4. Then they label Yuna fans as "crazy" or "overzealous".


  4. #1699
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I thought she showed a lot of control of speed and movement in the SP I linked to (which happens to be one of my favourite COP SP's...the only thing really marring it is one of the travelling spins.)

    The inability to do clean programs for the interval between 2007-2010 has nothing to do with her actual skating being bad, per se. Like Patrick Chan, who is also phenomenally talented and has skating skills to die for, many general skating fans had negative reactions to the high scores or placements they both got/get when they splat. Carolina is still getting high placements despite splatting once in a while, but now people "just get her." so that's OK...and many of those same people don't "get" Chan. (And talk about overdramaticized, put-on expressions, which Lori Nichol did not restrain herself from loading into Transylvanian Lullaby...but it's YuNa who still gets the brunt of the criticisms on this.)
    Obviously we disagree about Kostner. I found her to be really sloppy and uncontrolled before at her worst. It wasn't only on her multiple stumbles, but the way she moved her body throughout the routines. I find that now she's able to restrain herself from a lot of the excesses she used to be guilty of and her positive qualities (speed, edge control, freedom of upper body) to be much more apparent now that she's learned to control her movement.


    The heavy objection had to do with the fact that 6.0 was ALL about the CLEAN performances and while S/P was clean, B/S made some small mistakes in the Free. I have no idea where you think the major reason is simply because S/P projected better.

    And, the IJS was created in order to balance quality of execution with complexity and difficulty (which once again, favours B/S more than S/P) as well as to try to appease the IOC and skating fans that they cleaned Figure Skating up. Much more so than trying to reward uh, projection because S/P supposedly almost wuzrobbed on that front.
    Again, although COP was created in a way to sort of justify B/S's placement in SLC (which is a good thing) and reward elements in skating that were ignored under 6.0, you cannot deny that the vehement reaction to the pairs result jumpstarted the whole thing even if the end product would round up rewarding B/S much more than 6.0 did.

    Lots of people disagree with Ziggy's opinions and reports on a variety of issues and they don't have to be Kim ubers.

    You may call it oversensitivity; I also see overeagerness in some to criticize YuNa. Not Ziggy--I just simply disagree with some of his opinions.

    For the record, I was there, too.
    Just check out the first few postings of the Ladies LP thread. All he said was that he didn't think she was as convincing as she was in the SP, and people jumped all over his "paragraph" about Yu Na Kim. This has been the norm on here and the other dominate skating forum from extreme Kim fans any time there's any criticism. Same thing with my post. You bring up the overeagerness and someone else says they're tired of the same posters "bashing" Kim over and over again. So...where is the line drawn? When are people honestly giving their opinion on Kim's skating and when are they just overeager to bash her when on-it's-face the criticisms are just a disagreement at worst.

    Anyway, I think we're going in circles here, so I'll let you have the last word.

  5. #1700
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    Yu Na's FS reminded me of 2006 Plushenko at the Olympics: Perfectly polished performances devoid of any emotion that truly deserved the medals they got.

  6. #1701
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    Sorry to jump in, but in regards to your last point, does it matter? Do we need to carry assumptions about a skater's fans whenever they say something? Or, y'know, we could just respond to each individually according to his/her words w/out previous bias and avoid generalizing terms like "Yunabots." I'd like to think my logical reasoning facilities and capability for objectivity are functioning, thank you very much.

  7. #1702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    Yu Na's FS reminded me of 2006 Plushenko at the Olympics: Perfectly polished performances devoid of any emotion that truly deserved the medals they got.
    I'm sorry you didn't feel the emotions but allow me one question: do you believe every person has the same opinion as you? Because according to the scores, the judges didn't think the same. Neither did the crowd that gave her a standing O before the program was over. I'm sorry the world doesn't comply with your opinions; tragedy innit?

  8. #1703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilith11 View Post
    I'm sorry you didn't feel the emotions but allow me one question: do you believe every person has the same opinion as you?
    Of course not.


    Because according to the scores, the judges didn't think the same.

    My opinion has nothing to do with scores


    Neither did the crowd that gave her a standing O before the program was over.
    I would have given a standing ovation myself had I been fortunate enough to be there. That was an impresive display of athletic ability.



    I'm sorry the world doesn't comply with your opinions; tragedy innit?

    I call it diversity of opinions.

  9. #1704
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I finally have watched the girls on Fuji that my timer recorded. I was very disappointed with Yuna's attitude to the event- formal and cold. Like a factory worker who came, did her shift and left. It's very rude and unprofessional. While her TES score was deservely of the paver who rode all over her rivals, her PCS once again proved that the judging is just a joke. The overdramatic face impression in both progs with absolutely no difference, that she switched on and off automatically with the music start/finish. The same awfully postured legs, knees, shoulders with no elegance and charm. What does her dress have anything to do with 19 century? It's a bought in a Halloween store costume "Mother Capulet at her daughter's funeral".


    Mind the gap.
    Mind the gap.
    Keep calm and Carry on.

    Would it help if you stop being brainwashed only following the Fuji broadcast but try the BBC / CBC / Universal / Eurosport / Russia Rai channels with perhaps less biased commentaries?
    (Oh yeah I also enjoyed Kanako.)


    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    I can sort of see this. But I don't think Yu-na gets treatment anywhere close to what Mao gets. After almost every one of her competitions this season, we had people saying "atrocious performance" or "queen of double loop" or "2 types of triples" while with Yu-na, we get her supporters accusing posters of being Yu-na haters when they say they don't think Yu-na deserves 10s for PCS. And then we had some posters writing ridiculous essays about the "Gray Swan" and "artistic dishonesty" in Mao's LP. Overall for Yu-na's more fervent fans there just seems to be a much bigger disconnect with reality; anything Yu-na can't do is quickly dismissed as "basic" or "easy" whether it's a triple loop or a triple Axel-double toe, and any changes that don't directly benefit Yu-na are immediately said to be from the JSF unfairly pushing Mao Asada with their billions of dollars in sponsorship money. I'd say the grumbling about Yu-na is probably a sour knee-jerk reaction to the craziness of a certain minority of her fans.
    LOL... oh yeah that was me! *2 hands 2 fingers victory sign*

    I happen to be a huge fan of Pauline Kael's film critiques, so I tend to adapt her passionate but blunt honest style. I am still happily stand by my ridiculous 'essay' (thank you very much for remembering. It is flattering really for. I clearly have touched a nerve somewhere).

    However as much as I admire Mao, I still stand by my critique for her programs this year. They were junior and shallow. Mao's Swans clearly does not speak the music of Tchaikovsky, they were clearly the 'off the boat' variety. Exported from the land of bubbles and rainbows all still slightly dazed and confused even a few months later. Half a dozen performances later, the interpretation still unable to distinguish which colour is suppose to be from which music section, since they are neither reflected in the interpretation or the presentation. That program is choreographically half empty and the only saving grace is the step sequences. Put Liberstraume on it, is it any difference? I don't even know why people pretend to select the music or put on the costume anymore if that is all it takes. If you don't care enough about what you are suppose to be interpreting, being faithful to deliver the meaning in the music, intention of the composers then why should the audience do too? I'd say exactly the same if it is Yuna who did this program with the same type of contrived and inaccurate adaptation/interpretation.

    I admit they are indeed scathing remarks, but do understand, my critique is not because I am a Yuna fan nor I am an anti (I am not - lets not get juvenile about this shall we?). Tat and Mao are 2 of superpowers of ballet on ice. It should be a match made in heaven, it should be 120% of my expectations, instead, I got 48% lukewarm version, where 30% alone are for the step sequences. I'd expect the program to be alot better, one of the best ever, a signature program i'd like to rewatch again and again. This did not happen.

    I happen to be a huge fan of Hanyu and Daisuke, I raved about them and their programs last year, but I was the firsts to write their programs were artistically inferior this year regardless of results. I might not be a fan of Mao or Patrick fan, but I was the firsts to pick her Jupiter program as her best work up to date, and Patrick's Elegie that had been onlyo a gala which he used as his SP this year to establish another world record.

    I also picked out Liza since the Juniors as the one likely to succeed before she was popular and entered seniors. I have placed Li Zijun above Osmond despite the massive Osmond hype and wide appreciation. I am likely continue to do to any other skaters or any programs regardless reputation or care about the general consensus or popular believe. Oh yeah I am also one of the few who really appreciate Mao's Grand Bell of Moscow even though everyone else including Mao fans appears to hate it. I guess my tastes are just very different from others (including Yuna fans), but should that stop me participating on forums? Should I lie to be popular? I hope not. Finally, I am just one voice among thousands and never expected anyone to 100% agree with me. My advice, don't think too much into what people write, and I have only ever spoke for myself and not others. Even I admit I might not get everything right all the time, but I'd like to think I still get more right than not. Heck... I have even sometimes reread back something I wrote a while ago and then disagree with it. (Blame it on the liberal education... i am a natural rebel :P)
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 03-20-2013 at 06:17 AM.

  10. #1705
    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    Feeling emotional attachment to a skater's performance is such a personal, subjective thing. I hope everyone can agree on this. Therefore, I, along with other Yuna fans here, am perfectly fine with some other people's opinion that they didn't feel emotional connection to Yuna's performance at all.

    But where I have big issue is they equate their lack of emotional connection to Yuna's performance as the definitive evidence that Yuna lacks artistry in her skating. That is not right.

    And what is the worst is that these people are not really interested in discussing various style of artistry (e.g. exuberant, outwardly expressive style of skating v. more inward, subtle and delicate style of artistry) as much as just wanting to put a skater down in a public forum.

  11. #1706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    Both Plushenko and Yu Na have earned my respect as remarkable athletes. As for the rest of your post, I have no idea what you are talking about. Neither I have an alter username nor I have a secret agenda of any sort.
    That says it all. If you don't have basic respect for honesty or others then there's no point carrying on.

  12. #1707
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    That says it all. If you don't have basic respect for honesty or others then there's no point carrying on.
    I still have no idea what you're talking about.

  13. #1708
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    So...where is the line drawn? When are people honestly giving their opinion on Kim's skating and when are they just overeager to bash her when on-it's-face the criticisms are just a disagreement at worst.
    I think criticisms are wonderful, and yes, Kim could obviously have given a different and even more improved performance, better to the eyes of some, because tastes can run differently, but how giving a summary judgment that her work is maybe respected and appreciated for her technicality but not loved and adored by the general public, like Virtue/Moir and other great skaters are, and dismissing the taste of her fans, and labelling anyone who loves her skating as die-hard fans, can be considered a criticism of her work. I don't think anyone likes their favorite athletes being criticized, but fair critics are appreciated, at least. Baiting the fans by saying things like, "Oh, I'm sorry I hit the nerve of Yuna fans" isn't considered criticism.

    I can see her irritating some skating fans after 2011 Worlds, when she just made a token appearance and didn't really give her 100%, but even after the free...this just seems so small minded.

    No matter. I guess I just now had my first fan war? Fangirl war? Is that what this is called? I've read some, but I can see how one can be so quickly riled up in this sort of thing. And I thought I was a reasonable and fair minded viewer. (You just don't know until you experience it, I guess!) Honestly, I still would've liked to see Carolina persevere after all this years and win something big (though yeah, SP was problematic), but after this, I almost feel more sorry for Yuna Kim for giving some incredible performance and still get to be told she's phoning in by some. Well, I would be sorry for her if I thought she'd care, but somehow I'm sure she doesn't.

    Moving on to the "new" generation. Li. Wow, she was so precious! She does need to work on her speed, I thin, but her spins. So very pretty to look at, and no wonder the audience just loved her. Also Gracie she showed so much potential and I really appreciated her skate, but she's once again being heralded as the saviour of US women's skating, like Murai and others before her, and I'm a little worried. That said, she seems to have quite a bit of spunk, so I think we may see better things from her yet. And Osmond. I think it's too early to tell for her. I would dearly like Canada to have another female figure skater to root for, and she definitely has spunk in spades as well as a strong personality on ice, but she doesn't feel quite solid to me yet, like Gracie Gold did with her free. We shall see. I don't want to hang too much hope in them yet. Plus, while I know some of you want the "older" generation to move on, I think I loved watching all the skaters from the Vancouver era doing so well still. They all matured in their skating, and it's wonderful to watch.

  14. #1709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    Yu Na's FS reminded me of 2006 Plushenko at the Olympics: Perfectly polished performances devoid of any emotion that truly deserved the medals they got.
    I truly feel the same, I really felt nothing from Yuna's skate, it just felt like an repeated act and not her sincere feelings that was displayed. There were many moment where it just felt like turn on and off, with the expressions, which is why I really don't understand her pcs scores, but my real issue is the goe she received, it really felt overly generous on everything.

  15. #1710
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    it really felt overly generous on everything.
    Even her jumps? Yuna's jumps are textbook with excellent height and control on the landing. When she retires and moves on, she should still give master classes on teaching the ladies how to jump correctly in terms of entrances and rotations.

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