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Thread: 2013 Worlds Ladies FS

  1. #1741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambivalent View Post
    You wouldn't be singing the same tune if Mao and Yu-Na's scores and performances had been swapped.

    I agree with what YunaBliss said earlier. Not everyone needs to like Yuna's skating, and you might find it robotic or even alienating. I thought it was magical, and it looks like the crowd agreed. What bothers me is where people suggest that Yuna's skating isn't somehow "sincere", and even lacking in artistry. This is where I draw the line. You can say that her skating isn't for you, that her reserved style doesn't draw you in, but to somehow conflate your personal tastes with an assessment of she isn't artistic, and if she is she isn't being sincere about it is wrong and just speaks of personal prejudice because your favourite, whoever that might be, didn't win.
    Completely agreed!

  2. #1742
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    Overall, the placements were correct in the Ladies event (thank goodness). Let's face it...Yu-na Kim is a singular talent in the history of figure skating. No one combines the generally perfect execution of her jumps with graceful elegance in the same way. She has both the firepower, the mental toughness and the artistic interpretation down pat. Perhaps some of her stellar interpretation skills are attributable simply to the way she looks...she was blessed with a perfect figure skater's body...long arms and legs with everything else proportioned just right. Regardless, she is certainly one of the best figure skaters in figure skating history...it's simply the truth. Sure her scores may be a little inflated, but even if they weren't, she'd still be running away with the gold medal by a mile (when she skates and really means it). No one in this field can really match her when she's at the top of her game.

  3. #1743
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Yes, when I originally saw the replay of Carolina Kostner's 3T/3T in the arena, even from a distance, I thought it was clearly underrotated. But her unexpectedly high score meant that they hadn't called it.

    I would have had Mao ahead of Carolina overall. However, I would have had Kanako Murakami ahead of both of them, so then Mao would still have been third. Taking into account Kostner's strengths such as her superior skating skills and deserved better GOE for individual jumps cleanly landed, for me personally, Kanako had the second-best overall combination of performance/technical components.

  4. #1744
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Taking into account Kostner's strengths such as her superior skating skills and deserved better GOE for individual jumps cleanly landed, for me personally, Kanako had the second-best overall combination of performance/technical components.
    Why would Carolina's superior skating skills and GOEs justify your opinion that Kanako should have been in second place? If you are going to say that Kanako was the second best skater of the night, you should raise Kanako's superior qualities, not Carolina's. Your reasoning is faulty. You are basically saying to someone who asserts that bananas are better than oranges, 'No, strawberries are better than bananas and oranges, because oranges are superior in x and x ways.' Makes no sense.

    (I really like Kanako, and hope that she can improve her jump technique. Sure she gets the job done, but her jumps aren't very pretty. I think she will slowly fix them.)

  5. #1745
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Why would Carolina's superior skating skills and GOEs justify your opinion that Kanako should have been in second place?
    I think Jaylee is saying, even though Carolina has strong skating skills and deservedly high GOEs, nevertheless Jaylee likes Kanako's performance better overall.
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-21-2013 at 09:58 AM.

  6. #1746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think Jaylee is saying, even though Carolina has strong skating skills and deservedly high GPOs, nevertheless Jaylee like Kanako's performance better overall.
    Pretty much. I anticipated the first counter-response to my opinion being that "Well, Carolina deserved to be higher than Kanako because she has great skating skills and deserves high GOES for her jumps," so I wanted to make it clear that I am aware of that and took that into account already. That's all. My post was just stating a summary opinion, not a comprehensive explanation for my reasoning. I feel confident that I could point to enough facts regarding Kanako's performances to support my opinion, hence why I said it, but I don't have the time or inclination to go into detail right now.

    I understand that some feel that Kostner deserved second and I understand (and I can respect) their reasons why. I'm not going to get all into their face about it. I happen to feel differently, and that's all.

  7. #1747
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    Ah, I see. Idioms can be very difficult to master. I can understand that 'taking into account' would be especially difficult because its inflection varies according to its placement in the sentence and in relation to the sentence construction.

    I do think Kanako was lowballed in PCS, and hopefully, she'll be getting higher 7s and even 8s next season.

  8. #1748
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Mao is never going to beat not only Yu Na Kim but now also Carolina Kostner on GOE and PCS. She has to do a harder jump layout, unless she wants to rely on them making mistakes. Can she do a less hard jump layout, one she might actually have a hope to execute cleanly, but still have enough of a cushion to have a chance. Perhaps, it is up to her to examine that, but she certainly cant do the same difficulty as Kim and Kostner and hope to beat them if they skate cleanly.

    As for toe jumps, Kim is probably the best toe jumper ever (the fluke edge call by a ridiculous caller in the SP aside) and Mao flutzes. She will never match Kim on GOE on toe jumps, even if she improves them.
    We also have to remember that a large part of WHY Mao's BV was so high is that she had her triple axel ratified this competition. If she were to do a 2A instead, she would lose over 5 points in BV and consequently have a lower base value than Yuna's. And like you've all mentioned, Mao's GOEs can't even begin to compare with Yuna, so she HAS to attempt a harder layout in order to stay competitive.

  9. #1749
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I do think Kanako was lowballed in PCS, and hopefully, she'll be getting higher 7s and even 8s next season.
    I agree. Even had she rotated both 3Ls, her score would have still been around 4 or 5 points higher... 127/128... essentially would have still pushed her to 4th behind a flawed Mao and Kostner, which is pretty wrong considering Kostner and Mao's errors in the SP. I mean, come on, with Mao's and Kostner's frees, they received a 6 and 8 point PCS cushion over Kanako.

    I must say though that Kostner's Bolero was performed the way I would hope... she finally made the first half interesting, to go with the second half, and she added in that lovely 3F-3T, so I'm cool with her getting 2nd. Otherwise it would have been a fall in the SP and a 4-triple FS being enough to hit the podium at Worlds, which would have been pretty awful, even if it is a good skater like Kostner.

    But I would have certainly put Li over her and Asada in the FS (the 8 points that Li beat Kostner technically was made up by a 12-point PCS gap).

  10. #1750
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    Li was underscored in the FS to make sure she went behind Gold. I mentioned this right at time while the event was going but I think even the judges wanted to see the U.S get 3 spots back, just like all of us did, and Li would have been a potential wrench in those plans so stingy PCS was the best way to try and stop that (as it turns out the U.S would have still gotten 3 spots even had she beaten both Wagner and Gold, but there was no way to know that at the time).

    Either way any talk from Kim haters of Kim having inflated scores is laughable when it in fact it could be questioned if Kostner and Asada even deserved their placings over Murakami (and Li in the LP phase alone, although certainly still beating her overall given the SPs) at all. At the time I was ok with Kostner and Asada medaling over Murakami as their performances were extremely strong apart from the couple mistakes, and Murakami probably had some URs like usual. However seeing the performance again I am not even sure of those UR calls anymore, and that she wouldnt have had the points to be ahead even without them, when she was basically tied with Kostner in the short and several points up on Asada after the SP to begin with, is quite puzzling. I was happy with the podium as I love all 3 skaters, and liked all their performances, but I can definitely see why some are upset Murakami did not medal with her essentialy clean skate with many wonderful points, even with her fugly jump technique, over the flawed (albeit still very strong, but not perfecT) SP and LP performances of Kostner and Asada.

  11. #1751
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    I don't think Li has the power in her skating to match Gold on PCS yet. If you haven't seen Gold skate, she is blazing fast and her transitions are good (Osmond's were better this season).

  12. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    I don't think Li has the power in her skating to match Gold on PCS yet. If you haven't seen Gold skate, she is blazing fast and her transitions are good (Osmond's were better this season).
    Fair enough. Sometimes it comes across alot differently live and while I have seen alot of these skaters live, I have yet to see Gold in person. That said it sure felt like Li had the most inspiring performance of the 2nd last group by a large margin, but I just knew she wouldnt be going into 1st regardless.

  13. #1753
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    There was also the point differential from the short. Li almost made up that entire point differential and scored the 4th best LP of the night.

  14. #1754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colanboy View Post
    We also have to remember that a large part of WHY Mao's BV was so high is that she had her triple axel ratified this competition. If she were to do a 2A instead, she would lose over 5 points in BV and consequently have a lower base value than Yuna's. And like you've all mentioned, Mao's GOEs can't even begin to compare with Yuna, so she HAS to attempt a harder layout in order to stay competitive.
    As long as Mao can't get a lutz, Mao does need a triple-axel to beat Yuna. It's that simple, and once the decision to include a triple-axel is taken, the planned BV will shoot up as a matter of course. And Mao might as well put in a 3axel now, if the worst likely scenario is a double-footed landing. She'll get negative GOEs, but the jump pass would still be worth about 6 points, and at best, she would get around 9-10 points.

    If Mao does manage to master a stable lutz technique during the off-season, it would become a different ball game. A short program with four triple jumps would become realistic. Imagine that!

    Get the lutz, Mao!

  15. #1755
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Of course she wouldnt have, and the only major controversial and borderline scandalous result for women this year was Mao`s win at NHK over Suzuki, but of course Mary had absolutely nothing to say on that (predictable). Atleast Kim has never won a single event or medal controversially her whole career, and the only thing you can question sometimes are the scores and margins, but not the actual result. In fact she twice at Worlds was said by many to be possibly robbed of a higher result (Worlds 2008 and even Worlds 2011). Mao and especialy Kostner (I actually love Kostner`s skating apart from the headcaseness but that list for her is a long) certainly cant say they have never won any controversial titles or medals.
    oh really, that win was fully deserved, since a win is determined by overall score of the sp and fs, she deserved every inch of it. just because the same trolls keept screaming and trolling like they usuelly do, wont change that. let my remind you of real controversial wins:

    Ashley winning the US title over Gold
    Carolina winning the European championships

    and at least Mao NEVER had anything in her score that stood out. her PCS is comparable from competition to competition and doesn't suddenly rise like crazy with the same content. does this remind you of anyone?
    it sure is a luxury to have to judges favoritism, since they thereby are able to bury every controversial win or medal, by bestowing them with PCS and letting them win by a clear margin...

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