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Thread: 2013 Worlds Ladies FS

  1. #1831
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I think the 3T-3T in the FS wouldn't make sense since it makes more sense to save her repeated jumps for her 3S and 3L in her FS. And her consistency of the 3-3 in the SP has been pretty bad this season, but at least she continues to go for it. I think it would make more sense for Kostner to go for 3F-2T in the SP come Olympics time, if she wants to have a shot at securing silver. She should realise that even with a perfect 3Z-3T/2F/2A Yu Na, and a fall on her 3-3, she was still only 3 points shy of her after the SP. Makes more sense for her to go clean and guarantee a medal. You can bet that Gracie, Liza and Sotnikova will be more consistent by Sochi in the SP/LP so Kostner can't really afford the errors.
    My reasoning goes the other way. Kostner can fall on a 3-3 attempt and still be just 3-points shy of a clean Kim.

    Might as well go for glory with a 3F-3T in both SP and LP. Because if she does land it, it's breathtaking and her marks should go through the roof.

  2. #1832
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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    ^^^ This was an absurd goal.

    There seemed to be a lot of over-the-top expectations for the Russian ladies this season. They are talented and have promising futures, but I think the "crowning" was a bit premature. Two of their ladies had solid Top 10 World Championship debuts, and, yet, it was seen as a very poor outing for them.

    I think this is unfair. Yes, they had done well at Europeans, but that field did not include Yuna, the powerful Japanese contingent, or the North Americans. The expectations placed on these skaters had to have been immense, and I think it showed in their performances. Their mistakes seemed to be caused by nerves rather than poor technique.

    I contrast this with Gracie Gold, who, although we hoped would do well, did not skate with the same weight of expectations. She performed beyond the rational hopes of most observers.

    I think most contributors here thought the US would most likely continue on trend and earn two Olympic spots, while the Russians were expected to earn three... in at least one thread, it was a given that Russia would have three, and at least one would be fighting for a podium spot.

    I think this was a disservice to these young athletes.
    No they could clearly have been like zijun li or Gracie gold and had done better. Top 10 was not good enough. Li placed 4th in the fs and so could sonikova and tuktamisheva but their worlds were awful. They were very poor and both of them need to get it together and find their inner zijun li's. They want to skate well right? I'm sure they don't want to skate like they did at London worlds ever again in their lives so it's up to them to skate well and all external stuff should be just nonsense to them.

  3. #1833
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    No they could clearly have been like zijun li or Gracie gold and had done better. Top 10 was not good enough. Li placed 4th in the fs and so could sonikova and tuktamisheva but their worlds were awful. They were very poor and both of them need to get it together and find their inner zijun li's. They want to skate well right? I'm sure they don't want to skate like they did at London worlds ever again in their lives so it's up to them to skate well and all external stuff should be just nonsense to them.
    Adelina skated better than Zijun in the SP(no falls from her). And both Adelina and Liza skated better at Euros then Zijun did at 4 Continents. Liza made the GPF this season, for the second time in their career. London 2012 was just a competition, period. Zijun may very well struggle next season. People forget that both here and at 4 Continents she blew her SP. And Gracie? This is the first competition she didn't bomb in one of the phases(SP or LP). Skate Canada was a disaster, Rostelecom Cup was better but her LP was not very good, at nationals she bombed the SP, at 4 Continents she bombed the LP. I am sure neither Liza and Adelina are happy with how they skated but they were not as bad as people are saying. At least Liza landed 6 triples in the LP, two if them being 3Lz. And Adelina didn't melt down like everyone expected but she has UR problems which she has to fix
    Adelina and Liza would have been 5th and 6th with their scores at 2012 Worlds. I am sure people would not write them off with that kind of result.

  4. #1834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Adelina skated better than Zijun in the SP(no falls from her). And both Adelina and Liza skated better at Euros then Zijun did at 4 Continents. Liza made the GPF this season, for the second time in their career. London 2012 was just a competition, period. Zijun may very well struggle next season. People forget that both here and at 4 Continents she blew her SP. And Gracie? This is the first competition she didn't bomb in one of the phases(SP or LP). Skate Canada was a disaster, Rostelecom Cup was better but her LP was not very good, at nationals she bombed the SP, at 4 Continents she bombed the LP. I am sure neither Liza and Adelina are happy with how they skated but they were not as bad as people are saying. At least Liza landed 6 triples in the LP, two if them being 3Lz. And Adelina didn't melt down like everyone expected but she has UR problems which she has to fix
    Adelina and Liza would have been 5th and 6th with their scores at 2012 Worlds. I am sure people would not write them off with that kind of result.
    It's different to be at euros and 4cc and do bad or good and be at worlds and be bad or good. Being good at a worlds is better than being good and medaling at euros. Being bad at 4cc is who cares compared to placing in 4th in the fs at worlds. That's where Adelina and liza should have been based on all their talent!! But they didn't deliver. I am not writing them off for any future success but their placement at worlds was no kind of success and medaling at euros does not make up for their doing poorly at worlds. It says something about Gracie and zijun that they both delivered so well at worlds - tHe most important event of a season.

    Li may struggle in the future but at least in her career she delivered a great performance at a senior worlds which for all of their amazing success Liza and Adelina haven't done yet! They may do so in the future but I doubt they will get thereif people say "yay you made the top 10! Good for you Liza and adleina!!" and don't point out how Liza did no 3/3 and had a level 1 spin in the fs and bombed the sp and Adelina didn't do a 3 jump combo because she attached it to her worst jump which she does 2 of for some reason - the flip.

  5. #1835
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It's different to be at euros and 4cc and do bad or good and be at worlds and be bad or good. Being good at a worlds is better than being good and medaling at euros.
    Why? Except for the obvious reason that worlds were a qualifying event for Olympics. Euros are almost as prestigious as worlds (at least in Europe) and 4CC is also starting to be a very important event now that North America and Asia are dominating the sport. I don't see how being 7th at worlds is better than medaling at Euros to be honest, no matter how good Zijun was in the LP. Liza's season was better than Zijun Li's, and I might say Adelina's too. Liza placed 4th and second in the GP events(she was really good in TEB), a good showing in the GPF, winning Russian Nationals, having one of the best LP of the season at Euros and placing in top 10 at worlds. Adelina medaled in Nebelhorn Trophy, Skate America and Europeans. Zijun was 4th and 5th at her GP events, 5th in four continents and 7th at worlds. She really had an amazing LP in London and ended her season on a high note but that doesn't take away the fact that she didn't medal in any big international competition so far. She did better than the Russian ladies at worlds but a 7th place overall is not that much better than 9th and 10th IMO. I do admit that Li was somehow underscored in 4CC and her consistency is getting much much better than the Russian ladies so far. Her performance here made the judges finally rewarding her properly and this could benefit her next season.
    As to Gracie, this is her first really good competition as a senior skater. She held it together very well and surpassed my expectations. I hope she does it again next season.

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    And yes, it is an absurd goal to say Elizaveta was intending to beat Kim, but obviously we need to read between the lines. Mishin is suggesting to the Russian media that she *can* beat Kim. This essentially is intended to boost her stock within the Russian ranks, and emphasize that Tuktamysheva intends to win Sochi -- even though it's unlikely that she will. Even if Plushenko's surgery didn't go well, I doubt he would tell the Russian media that it didn't. It's all about optics and what people think is the situation, not so much what is actually going on. It's the same as coaches or skaters who tell the media they are training quads and triple axels. Bourne and Kraatz had the same attitude going into Nagano - told the Canadian media they're challenging for gold - even though we all knew that they didn't stand a chance. All propaganda, but obviously you don't want to sell yourself short either. It's like when at US nationals you see the ambitious "intended" jump layout laden with 3-3 combos and then the skater obviously never meant to do any of that difficulty. You really can't tell until the skater hits the ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    My reasoning goes the other way. Kostner can fall on a 3-3 attempt and still be just 3-points shy of a clean Kim.

    Might as well go for glory with a 3F-3T in both SP and LP. Because if she does land it, it's breathtaking and her marks should go through the roof.
    I agree and it is not like she is much more consistent with the 3T-3T than the 3F-3T anyway. She always was quite consistent with the latter.

  8. #1838
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    No they could clearly have been like zijun li or Gracie gold and had done better. Top 10 was not good enough. Li placed 4th in the fs and so could sonikova and tuktamisheva but their worlds were awful. They were very poor and both of them need to get it together and find their inner zijun li's. They want to skate well right? I'm sure they don't want to skate like they did at London worlds ever again in their lives so it's up to them to skate well and all external stuff should be just nonsense to them.
    Well, we agree on some things. I think they're both technically capable. They didn't skate their best. They could have bright futures. A medal at Europeans does not compensate for a poor outing at WC.

    What they need to figure out is why the poor showing... what caused it? I think it was nerves, and I think it was the higher expectations placed on them.

    I also think that's why Gracie and Zijun skated better. Fewer expectations placed on them this season, because they hadn't shown consistency.

    Now... will they back it up now that the expectations have risen? How will the Russian girls respond to disappointment on a big stage? I suppose we'll find out.

    FWIW, I still think they did well for their first outing, and they both had an admirable season overall.

  9. #1839
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    Kudos to Kostner for landing the 3F-3T and securing silver with it, but that's also the first time we've seen her attempt+cleanly execute it in quite a while. Like Mao's 3A at 4CC which was clean but flawed at Worlds. it's probably not super consistent yet, which is understandable since she's just getting it back and it's a really difficult combination (in general). It'll be interesting to see if Kostner gets mileage on that combination in her Grand Prix events when she can afford to err but still place high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Well, we agree on some things. I think they're both technically capable. They didn't skate their best. They could have bright futures. A medal at Europeans does not compensate for a poor outing at WC.

    What they need to figure out is why the poor showing... what caused it? I think it was nerves, and I think it was the higher expectations placed on them.

    I also think that's why Gracie and Zijun skated better. Fewer expectations placed on them this season, because they hadn't shown consistency.

    Now... will they back it up now that the expectations have risen? How will the Russian girls respond to disappointment on a big stage? I suppose we'll find out.

    FWIW, I still think they did well for their first outing, and they both had an admirable season overall.
    I think Tukt and Sotnikova will both have something to say at WTT next week, where there's considerably less pressure. They probably knew, going into Worlds, that it was up to the two of them to secure Russia's 3 Olympic spots--Alena Leonova sure couldn't do it. And that's a ridiculous amount of expectation to put on the shoulders of sixteen-year-old rookies. At least Gracie Gold had Ashley Wagner to lean on, and Zijun Li simply had a marvelous FS because she had no pressure to deliver three spots for China (though, I might add, only placed a bare two points ahead of Gracie's mistake-sprinkled FS).

    ITA about Europeans. We need to remember that if Kiira Korpi had been present and healthy, either Tukt or Sotnikova may not have medalled at all. The competition at this year's Russian Nationals will be absolutely brutal--with Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya coming of age, Leonova attempting to regain some dignity, and Tukt and Sotnikova fighting for the chance to prove themselves again, it'll be one hell of a show.

  11. #1841
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    The competition at this year's Russian Nationals will be absolutely brutal--with Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya coming of age, Leonova attempting to regain some dignity, and Tukt and Sotnikova fighting for the chance to prove themselves again, it'll be one hell of a show.
    And they only have two spots...same EXACT position we were in 4 years ago...so many contenders, plus you had the return of Cohen to complicate things further.

  12. #1842
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I think Tukt and Sotnikova will both have something to say at WTT next week, where there's considerably less pressure. They probably knew, going into Worlds, that it was up to the two of them to secure Russia's 3 Olympic spots--Alena Leonova sure couldn't do it. And that's a ridiculous amount of expectation to put on the shoulders of sixteen-year-old rookies. At least Gracie Gold had Ashley Wagner to lean on, and Zijun Li simply had a marvelous FS because she had no pressure to deliver three spots for China (though, I might add, only placed a bare two points ahead of Gracie's mistake-sprinkled FS).

    ITA about Europeans. We need to remember that if Kiira Korpi had been present and healthy, either Tukt or Sotnikova may not have medalled at all. The competition at this year's Russian Nationals will be absolutely brutal--with Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya coming of age, Leonova attempting to regain some dignity, and Tukt and Sotnikova fighting for the chance to prove themselves again, it'll be one hell of a show.
    that is kind of a scarey statement - double edge. yes, Korpi cold beat both Liza and Adelina - and that can be taken many ways including how bad the Euro ladies are lol. Korpi winning a medal can be taken many ways - she is an awesome skater or it is pretty weak competition because she has not mastered the harder jumps though she is beautifuly - still beauty is not a judging criteria - at least not stated lol.

  13. #1843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    that is kind of a scarey statement - double edge. yes, Korpi cold beat both Liza and Adelina - and that can be taken many ways including how bad the Euro ladies are lol. Korpi winning a medal can be taken many ways - she is an awesome skater or it is pretty weak competition because she has not mastered the harder jumps though she is beautifuly - still beauty is not a judging criteria - at least not stated lol.
    Well, Korpi's track record speaks for itself--three medals in the past six years, and she hasn't finished lower than 5th since 2007 Euros. She does have a lovely presence on the ice--mature presentation, nice spins, acceptable jumps, and most importantly, the ability to hold herself together. Now that Lepisto and Meier are both gone, and Gedevanishvili seems to have hit a hard slump, who's to say that Korpi can't consistently medal and out-place the Russian babies?

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    Putting aside the vagaries of TES and PCS, I'd rather watch Korpi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Why? Except for the obvious reason that worlds were a qualifying event for Olympics. Euros are almost as prestigious as worlds (at least in Europe) and 4CC is also starting to be a very important event now that North America and Asia are dominating the sport. I don't see how being 7th at worlds is better than medaling at Euros to be honest, no matter how good Zijun was in the LP. Liza's season was better than Zijun Li's, and I might say Adelina's too. Liza placed 4th and second in the GP events(she was really good in TEB), a good showing in the GPF, winning Russian Nationals, having one of the best LP of the season at Euros and placing in top 10 at worlds. Adelina medaled in Nebelhorn Trophy, Skate America and Europeans. Zijun was 4th and 5th at her GP events, 5th in four continents and 7th at worlds. She really had an amazing LP in London and ended her season on a high note but that doesn't take away the fact that she didn't medal in any big international competition so far. She did better than the Russian ladies at worlds but a 7th place overall is not that much better than 9th and 10th IMO. I do admit that Li was somehow underscored in 4CC and her consistency is getting much much better than the Russian ladies so far. Her performance here made the judges finally rewarding her properly and this could benefit her next season.
    As to Gracie, this is her first really good competition as a senior skater. She held it together very well and surpassed my expectations. I hope she does it again next season.
    It Is not just that the worlds were a qualifier for the Olympics. It was what Adelina and Elizaveta were presumably working towards Doing well at all season! But instead of doing well or respectably given their level of talent one placed 14 in the sp and the other 8th! It's not like they haven't known for years this is where they wanted to be and were expected to be by everyone for years. Ok both their bodies changed or whatever but they could do everything they planned in both their Sps and lp's and demonstrated it really a few weeks earlier! If worlds comes and they can't do What they can do- no excuse is good. This is where they wanted to be , expected to be, and could do everything. Li didn't medal at any gp but saved her best for worlds which is what i assume every skater wants. Ok so Liza and Adelina are expected to win or medal at every event they go to and when they don't there's problems for them. Of course there is! They have all the talent to win! And they want to do well so if there is a problem they should want to face It and fix it. Euros showed the growth issues werent a problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by TontoK View Post
    Well, we agree on some things. I think they're both technically capable. They didn't skate their best. They could have bright futures. A medal at Europeans does not compensate for a poor outing at WC.

    What they need to figure out is why the poor showing... what caused it? I think it was nerves, and I think it was the higher expectations placed on them.

    I also think that's why Gracie and Zijun skated better. Fewer expectations placed on them this season, because they hadn't shown consistency.

    Now... will they back it up now that the expectations have risen? How will the Russian girls respond to disappointment on a big stage? I suppose we'll find out.

    FWIW, I still think they did well for their first outing, and they both had an admirable season overall.
    Liza and Adelina were totally inconsistent in the gp too! Then they both go to euros and almost beat Carolina! So what was the problem? They were at a worlds they were expected to be at and wanted to be at for 4 years? Then they freaked out? If they freaked out - both of them- they really do need sports psychologists.

    If they both do well at the wtt then that just shows they need help in dealing with crowds or worlds or whatever worlds is to them. Liza just needs help with Sps anyway! She could place last in the wtt sp and first in the lp!! She just needs help with the sp!

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